Merril hodge says cam newton a top 5 qb right now.

[Pantherball]

I answered your question. Yes holding them to 3 points would be totally acceptable in that situation, I'd be happy with the defense if they could regularly hold teams to 3 points when they get within the 30. Unfortunately it seems we've got one of the worst red zone defenses in the leauge.

Offenses don't score 3 points, they never score 3 points. There's not an offensive play in the playbook that nets 3 points. Only special teams can score 3 points and ours didn't get it done.

Are you really blaming BOTH of those fumbles on Cam? The first one was vaugley Cam's responsibility since he could have stepped up in the pocket more, but D Williams takes at least 50% of the blame for missing the block. The second one was 100% on Gross, it literally would have happened to every QB in the NFL.

I didn't ask you if it was acceptable. I asked you if it was realistic to expect a defense not to give up 3 points when the other offense has the ball at the 16 yard line?

Is that NOT asking the impossible? Doesn't the other team basically have a chip-in FG at that point?

And isn't it true that asking even a rookie to not be nearly last in interceptions and 23rd in sacks a pretty reasonable request? How about when such a rookie is claimed to have such amazing escaping ability? Why is he then 23rd in sacks? Could that have anything to do with our offensive holding being ranked somewhere at the top of the league? Hmm....that's a mystery. What could cause that?

Does the fact that people are claiming such things not making the rest of you go: "wait a second that doesn't make any freaking sense. How can he be a great escaping QB, if he's 23rd in sacks?"

[CRA]

Hopeless.

In what CRA? Points allowed? They are actually 25th now. But Why? Because our QB is ranked 29th in the league in interceptions and our opponents are generally gifted points? You guys act like this defense is getting blown out and it's thanks to our amazing scoring offense that we are in these games close. Our D's not getting blown out. We are in every single game in the 4th quarter and our O cannot put it away.

You have it freaking completely backwards. You keep missing this part:

Our defense just had a "take-away" from Minnesota. Our O could not capitalize.

Cam Newton "turned-over" the ball 2 times to Minnesota. Minnesota could.

And our offense is not good or great in scoring points. It's average. It's 14th in points scored. Our defense is ranked 17th.

So what happens when your team is ranked average in scoring points, average on defense in yards allowed, your rookie 29th in interception and the team is 22nd in turnovers, but the offense can't even capitalize on any of the ones the defense gets them? It makes the defense 28th in points allowed!

Use some common sense man. If the offense was carrying this team they would be 5th in points scored too, not just yards!

Carolina D gives up 25.9 pts per game. Only 4 teams give up more pts in the NFL.

The ST unit is also one of the very worst in the NFL.

2 of your 3 units are horrific. That is why we are losing. Again, we you are that bad on D and ST......only a HOF QB has the ability to win consistantly and that is still a feat.

EVERY QB in our division averages more turnovers a game than Newton except for Brees and him and Newton average the same amount. They all have better records than us. Also plenty of top QBs like Rivers, Vick, etc. average more turnovers a game as well than Newton....and there teams have wins. WHY?!??! B/c they don't have 2 units that suck epic balls playing against the offense.

The reason Carolina is 5th in yards and not pts is b/c a rookie has the offense put on his shoulders.....unrealistic to expect great veteran play from him....which is what ultimately you are claiming Cam should be doing.

Cam is a rookie. Despite you denying it....your arguement is purely he should be playing like an elite veteran QB.

[Pantherball]

Dude your stats are even wrong our offense is ranked 18th in interceptions, 15th in passing TD's, 3rd in rushing TD's, 5th in yards passing, 7th in rushing yards, 14th in points, and 14th in offensive turnovers.

Compare that to the defense where we are ranked 28th in points, 26th in interceptions, 29th in rushing yards, 31st in rushing TD's, and 28th in creating turnovers.

You don't have to be a genius to see where the issue is on this team and it's clearly the shotty ass defense.

Dude...my numbers are NOT wrong. You are posting different statistics than I did.

We are ranked 22nd in turnover margin. You are counting offensive turnovers only.

Cam's tied for 28th in interceptions. He's last in the league. I'm not sure where you are getting your "team interceptions" and I have no idea who even uses that in such discussions.

And I didn't post any stats in the rest of the categories you are talking about. So please KNOW what you are reading or posting before you tell me my numbers are wrong.

[CRA]

And isn't it true that asking even a rookie to not be nearly last in interceptions and 23rd in sacks a pretty reasonable request? How about when such a rookie is claimed to have such amazing escaping ability? Why is he then 23rd in sacks? Could that have anything to do with our offensive holding being ranked somewhere at the top of the league? Hmm....that's a mystery. What could cause that?

NFC South

Ryan turns it over at a higher rate than Newton

Freeman turns it over at a higher rate than Newton

Brees has turned it over at the same rate.

and Newton is the rookie. So if Newton improved....he is being asked to turn it over the least in our division yet have arguably the 1st or 2nd biggest workload on him.

We don't have more wins b/c of the combo of D and ST. Doesn't matter how many posts you make trying to argue differently.

[teeray]

I've given Cam lots of props lately. Get out of the stone age man. He gets credit and blame equally.

I said TRD ;) :lol:

Edit: I am glad you are back though.

[The_Mango55]

I didn't ask you if it was acceptable. I asked you if it was realistic to expect a defense not to give up 3 points when the other offense has the ball at the 16 yard line?

Is that NOT asking the impossible? Doesn't the other team basically have a chip-in FG at that point?

No, I don't expect them to not give up 3 points. 3 points is fine. I expect them to not give up 7 points. Where the hell are you getting the idea that I'm expecting them to give up zero points?

And isn't it true that asking a rookie to not be nearly last in interceptions and 23rd in sacks a pretty reasonable request?

Not considering the yards he's thrown for. Top 5 in yardage this year:

Brees - 2,746 yds - 10 ints

Newton - 2,393 yds - 9 ints

Rodgers - 2,372 yds - 3 ints

Brady - 2,361 yds - 8 ints

Roethlisberger - 2,302 yds - 7 ints

So he's not Rodgers, who is this year? Seems a pretty reasonable number of picks to me.

How about when such a rookie is claimed to have such amazing escaping ability? Why is he then 23rd in sacks? Could that have anything to do with our offensive being ranked somewhere at the top of the league for holding? Hmm....that's a mystery. What could cause that?

Offensive line injuries and simply more passing plays than most other teams. More dropbacks=more sacks.

Does the fact that people are claiming such things not making the rest of you go: "wait a second that doesn't make any freaking sense. How can he be a great escaping QB, if he's 23rd in sacks?"

No, Big Ben is a pretty good escaping QB and he takes more sacks than almost anyone.

Are you really blaming BOTH of those fumbles on Cam? The first one was vaugley Cam's responsibility since he could have stepped up in the pocket more, but D Williams takes at least 50% of the blame for missing the block. The second one was 100% on Gross, it literally would have happened to every QB in the NFL.

[bigcatdaddy]

Dude...my numbers are NOT wrong. You are posting different statistics than I did.

We are ranked 22nd in turnover margin. You are counting offensive turnovers only.Cam's tied for 28th in interceptions. He's last in the league. I'm not sure where you are getting your "team interceptions" and I have no idea who even uses that in such discussions.

And I didn't post any stats in the rest of the categories you are talking about. So please KNOW what you are reading or posting before you tell me my numbers are wrong.

That should show your dumb @ss that the defense is shotty since we are 14th in the league in giveaways and 28th in the league in takeaways hence the takeaway/giveaway ratio being 22. THE DEFENSE SUCKS!

Here is a good reference for you and the one I always use:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2011.htm

As far as Cam and being 28th in the league in ints then where is Drew Brees? So you are going to tell me that stat holds water?

[Pantherball]

Carolina D gives up 25.9 pts per game. Only 4 teams give up more pts in the NFL.

The ST unit is also one of the very worst in the NFL.

2 of your 3 units are horrific. That is why we are losing. Again, we you are that bad on D and ST......only a HOF QB has the ability to win consistantly and that is still a feat.

EVERY QB in our division averages more turnovers a game than Newton except for Brees and him and Newton average the same amount. They all have better records than us. Also plenty of top QBs like Rivers, Vick, etc. average more turnovers a game as well than Newton....and there teams have wins. WHY?!??! B/c they don't have 2 units that suck epic balls playing against the offense.

The reason Carolina is 5th in yards and not pts is b/c a rookie has the offense put on his shoulders.....unrealistic to expect great veteran play from him....which is what ultimately you are claiming Cam should be doing.

Cam is a rookie. Despite you denying it....your arguement is purely he should be playing like an elite veteran QB.

Wrong, 3 of your 3 units are horrific, especially in the 4th quarter when one gets really stinky.

We can then agree on one thing, so please don't ever refer to Cam Newton as HOF potential until he at least has 2 back to back wins. But someone tried to convince me earlier this isn't a QB measuring stick.

And why do those guys have wins and can get away with it while we can't? Because those QB's are better than 7% when going for a comeback or game winning drive, when 7 out of their 8 games are decided in such a fashion.

All QB's have the offense put on their shoulders, because that's the QB's job. Not all QB's have a #1 receiver in the NFL. Another insult to Steve Smith, our TE's, and our running backs and the rest of this offense that are making so many plays out there in order for Cam to have as many yards as he does. Our RB's are still very much capable of rushing and they do a better job than Newton if they would simply be used as such, if Cam would have ran an NFL offense out of the I formation more, instead of being used as blockers and runners out of the pistol formation.

We're not asking Cam to do anything other than what every other team asks from their QB: play QB. Rivera and Chud are however designing our offense to fit Cam Newton and it's become a bit one dimensional and teams are beginning to figure out that who they need to watch out for 75% of the time is Cam Newton, because he passes all the time and happens to rush a lot too so just stop him, and since he's a rookie and pretty average overall, this tends to cause issues in your efficiency as an offense.

You really believe that the reason a proven elite player like Smith has 918 yards, a 61% efficiency in receptions but only 4TD's to go along with it is because he stopped being able to catch TD's in the endzone?

You really believe that our receiving squad with an overall 60% in receptions can't catch TD's in the endzone?

Or is it possible that if I go and start crunching Newton's numbers in the red-zone I'm going to find out his passing completion percentage drops to HORRIFIC levels just like it does when he's in 4th quarter winning or comeback drive situations? This is just a "wild" guess based on a bit of common sense and the previous numbers that showed me what happened to Newton as a passer in high pressure passing situations. I can, if you want me to. Just let me know. I haven't done this, but if you need numbers, and the above isn't enough to connect the dots, I can do that too when I have a bit of time.

Do you really believe we are doing all of this because our entire offense and guys have proven themselves can't do it anymore? Or is there someone else we're compensating for?

Yes Cam Newton is a rookie and I am NOT denying it. He's also playing like one even though people keep saying otherwise. In fact I'm trying to get you to accept this and see it. And not see just what you want. Not just the hype. But to see reality and how the fact that he is in fact a rookie is affecting this team overall and its ability to win close games. Is it that BIG of a shock to you that the rookie is to blame? It's NOT a shock to me that he's not playing like a vet. I expected yet another rookie QB to cost us games. Why are you so shocked and stubborn when I am pointing to things that are so clearly revealing this?

You continue to fail to see that what I am asking is for Cam Newton to play like a vet but simply average, not like an elite veteran!

All I'm trying to tell you, is before anything else-anything else- it's going to take Cam Newton to stop playing like such a rookie for us to win a close game when we are tied or down in the 4th quarter!

[bigcatdaddy]

No, I don't expect them to not give up 3 points. 3 points is fine. I expect them to not give up 7 points. Where the hell are you getting the idea that I'm expecting them to give up zero points?

Not considering the yards he's thrown for. Top 5 in yardage this year:

Brees - 2,746 yds - 10 ints

Newton - 2,393 yds - 9 ints

Rodgers - 2,372 yds - 3 ints

Brady - 2,361 yds - 8 ints

Roethlisberger - 2,302 yds - 7 ints

So he's not Rodgers, who is this year? Seems a pretty reasonable number of picks to me.

Offensive line injuries and simply more passing plays than most other teams. More dropbacks=more sacks.

No, Big Ben is a pretty good escaping QB and he takes more sacks than almost anyone.Are you really blaming BOTH of those fumbles on Cam? The first one was vaugley Cam's responsibility since he could have stepped up in the pocket more, but D Williams takes at least 50% of the blame for missing the block. The second one was 100% on Gross, it literally would have happened to every QB in the NFL.

To add to that Big Ben been sacked 25 times, Drew Brees 19 times, Jay Cutler 21 times, Matt Ryan 18 times, and Kevin Kolb 21 times. Cam has been sacked less then all these guys and he has dropped back and made more passes then all of them but Brees.

[CRA]

your just trolling......

D and ST.

Look at the NFCS....you don't even have to look league wide. They have better records b/c no team besides Carolina is sitting on a D and ST as horrific as Carolina.

Cam isn't turning the ball over worse than a single QB in our division. The offense isn't worse than every team in our division. They bring better D and ST to the party....and it makes a difference.

You claiming the offense is horrific just like the D and ST.....makes you a troll. Problem is the D and ST.....requires the O to make plays all game long or lose. It always puts the game on their shoulders at the end. Not a formula to win. Teams that win gets plays elsewhere than just the offense over a season.....that is how you win football games.

bolding is fun.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

Oh my poo the other members of my ignore list just got a lot less lonely

[Shaqil915]

Was Pantherball crying this hard last year about Jimmy Clausen?

[rayzor]

to those convinced this is TRD, Pantherball is not TRD. :P

At this point we are expecting literally perfect play from the offense to win us most games because of our bad our D and special teams are. That's unreasonable imo. But hey, that's just me. Maybe I'm wrong...

i didn't think he was TRD. that's camdemonium.

i think this clown is pffl. little dude obsesses over one little thing that is sure to make newton out to be this not really good QB. it won't be long before he starts trolling every thread with his inane crap.

[Camdemonium]

I said TRD ;) :lol:

Edit: I am glad you are back though.

I've accepted that some members refer to me as TRD. If it was directed at the real TRD, then I apologize.