Merril hodge says cam newton a top 5 qb right now.

[Pantherball]

I wonder why Minnesota could capitalize on these turnovers, maybe because the defense blows? The offense turns it over so it's alright that the defense gives up a 39 yard TD in 21 seconds? You can keep excusing the defense for giving up after turnovers if you want, but the rest of us hold them to a higher standard.

And I'm going to copy and paste this until you respont to it.

Are you really blaming BOTH of those fumbles on Cam? The first one was vaugley Cam's responsibility since he could have stepped up in the pocket more, but D Williams takes at least 50% of the blame for missing the block. The second one was 100% on Gross, it literally would have happened to every QB in the NFL.

I don't know Mango you tell me. Does the fact Minnesota's drives on those 2 turn-overs beginning at Carolina's 39 yard and Carolina's 16 yard line have anything to do with it?

I mean how incapable as an NFL offense do you have to be to get the ball at the 16 yard line and not come away with at least 3 points? Oh I know, I know: OUR OFFENSE! You have to be as incapable as us!

What do you want our defense to do exactly in that situation to not have at least 3 points put on them? Pray their kicker is as bad as ours and miss or call Julius Peppers on the phone so he can come block one for us?

Pray their QB and their offense is as incapable as ours in the same situations? The Jaguars can even put up 3 points in that situation. Heck they can do it from the 50 yard line! Maybe they should fuging ask Cam Newton to come in and let him try to stop that score from taking place since he's the one that put the other team there in the first place.

Maybe Cam cam do it! :rolleyes:

[The_Mango55]

So it's totally fine to give up a 39 yard touchdown drive in 21 seconds?

If we had a defense that could hold even one of those to FGs we win the game.

Also you're sarcastically pointing out that we couldn't come up with 3 points like it's the offense's fault for some reason when it's clearly not. The offense doesn't kick field goals.

Are you really blaming BOTH of those fumbles on Cam? The first one was vaugley Cam's responsibility since he could have stepped up in the pocket more, but D Williams takes at least 50% of the blame for missing the block. The second one was 100% on Gross, it literally would have happened to every QB in the NFL.

[teeray]

It is because we did not get the 3 points to tie the game.

That is horrible last time I checked in the real world. That is not a good thing. Losing 6 games when we are down by one score or less in the 4th quarter and our offense has the ball in situations like those is absolutely disgusting and gut wrenching.

Gut wrenching loss = bad thing. Not good. 1 or 2 games like this are "moral victories" early in the season when you have a rookie QB. 6 turns them into gut wrenching losses.

Seriously, you guys are like this close man to figuring it out and breaking free...don't give up.

If our defense was better we wouldn't have to worry about the fourth quarter so much. every week I watch teams like Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Jacksonville, Cleveland, Jets, Chicago, San Francisco, Houston, Philly, Dallas, among others find ways to withstand turnovers and not give up 24+ points. Why would you not hold our team to that same standard??

Just Sunday Dalton had two turnovers and their defense held the other team to 12 points!

Surely at times turnovers put the defense in tough spots but it is hardly the reason for us giving up so many points.

[mav1234]

to those convinced this is TRD, Pantherball is not TRD. :P

At this point we are expecting literally perfect play from the offense to win us most games because of our bad our D and special teams are. That's unreasonable imo. But hey, that's just me. Maybe I'm wrong...

[teeray]

to those convinced this is TRD, Pantherball is not TRD. :P

At this point we are expecting literally perfect play from the offense to win us most games because of our bad our D and special teams are. That's unreasonable imo. But hey, that's just me. Maybe I'm wrong...

You aren't.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

You see, we actually have a great defense and it's Cam and the offense that are holding us back.

[teeray]

I guess the fact that our defense is near the bottom of the league in interceptions, 3rd down conversions, sacks, 1st downs given up, and penalty yards is also because Cam had a couple turnovers too huh??? :lol:

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

Oh look here's something from another thread where people who actually know what they're doing talk about how our team played:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/31/re-focused-vikings-panthers-week-8/

DEs and Gamble playing well, defensive tackles unable to stop poo. Who would have thought.

[Pantherball]

to those convinced this is TRD, Pantherball is not TRD. :P

At this point we are expecting literally perfect play from the offense to win us most games because of our bad our D and special teams are. That's unreasonable imo. But hey, that's just me. Maybe I'm wrong...

Yes because succeeding on 1 out of 14 4th quarter offensive drives for comeback or winning drives has no room for improvement folks. 7%. SEVEN!

This offense has clearly peaked! It is clearly doing too much. And they even had to go half the field in the rain to get that one!

0 out 13 offensive drives for comeback or winning drives in the 4th quarter when the D doesn't put them at half field. 0% ZERO!

No way to improve on that. How can you possibly get any more efficient than this? Well maybe we should ask Jimmy Clausen. Because he's sitting on a bench playing Angry Birds and he has the same statistic. But clearly he's more efficient.

Because when you are ranked 29th in interceptions, there is no improvement one could possibly make. We can wait till next year. I mean you have reached the end of something already in 2011, so going back the other way right now, is just pointless.

When you gift 10-14 points a game as an offense, you have also proven you are a charitable offense. How can anyone possibly not see your greatness and ask any more from such a giving and loving football entity? Heroes man! Hall of Fame material!

I mean seriously how many of these, :rolleyes:, does that statement deserve, mav?

[Pantherball]

So it's totally fine to give up a 39 yard touchdown drive in 21 seconds?

If we had a defense that could hold even one of those to FGs we win the game.

Also you're sarcastically pointing out that we couldn't come up with 3 points like it's the offense's fault for some reason when it's clearly not. The offense doesn't kick field goals.

Are you really blaming BOTH of those fumbles on Cam? The first one was vaugley Cam's responsibility since he could have stepped up in the pocket more, but D Williams takes at least 50% of the blame for missing the block. The second one was 100% on Gross, it literally would have happened to every QB in the NFL.

You didn't answer my questions. Is it not practically guaranteed that even a scrub, no good, bottom of the league NFL offense is guaranteed at least 3 points when you give them the ball at the 16 yard line? Nine out of 10 times, if your offenses name is not the 2011 Carolina Panthers, who is the only team that's so freaking efficient at this misery, aren't you going to get at least a field goal when you start your drive at the 16 yard line?

Did we not just lose that game by 3 again?

[bigcatdaddy]

Hopeless.

In what CRA? Points allowed? They are actually 25th now. But Why? Because our QB is ranked 29th in the league in interceptions and our opponents are generally gifted points? You guys act like this defense is getting blown out and it's thanks to our amazing scoring offense that we are in these games close. Our D's not getting blown out. We are in every single game in the 4th quarter and our O cannot put it away.

You have it freaking completely backwards. You keep missing this part:

Our defense just had a "take-away" from Minnesota. Our O could not capitalize.

Cam Newton "turned-over" the ball 2 times to Minnesota. Minnesota could.

And our offense is not good or great in scoring points. It's average. It's 14th in points scored. Our defense is ranked 17th.

So what happens when your team is ranked average in scoring points, average on defense in yards allowed, your rookie 29th in interception and the team is 22nd in turnovers, but the offense can't even capitalize on any of the ones the defense gets them? It makes the defense 28th in points allowed!

Use some common sense man. If the offense was carrying this team they would be 5th in points scored too, not just yards!

Dude your stats are even wrong our offense is ranked 18th in interceptions, 15th in passing TD's, 3rd in rushing TD's, 5th in yards passing, 7th in rushing yards, 14th in points, and 14th in offensive turnovers.

Compare that to the defense where we are ranked 28th in points, 26th in interceptions, 29th in rushing yards, 31st in rushing TD's, and 28th in creating turnovers.

You don't have to be a genius to see where the issue is on this team and it's clearly the shotty ass defense.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

Yes because succeeding on 1 out of 14 4th quarter offensive drives for comeback or winning drives has no room for improvement folks. 7%. SEVEN!

This offense has clearly peaked! It is clearly doing too much. And they even had to go half the field in the rain to get that one!

0 out 13 offensive drives for comeback or winning drives in the 4th quarter when the D doesn't put them at half field. 0% ZERO!

No way to improve on that. How can you possibly get any more efficient than this? Well maybe we should ask Jimmy Clausen. Because he's sitting on a bench playing Angry Birds and he has the same statistic. But clearly he's more efficient.

Because when you are ranked 29th in interceptions, there is no improvement one could possibly make. We can wait till next year. I mean you have reached the end of something already in 2011, so going back the other way right now, is just pointless.

When you gift 10-14 points a game as an offense, you have also proven you are a charitable offense. How can anyone possibly not see your greatness and ask any more from such a giving and loving football entity? Heroes man! Hall of Fame material!

I mean seriously how many of these, :rolleyes:, does that statement deserve, mav?

What in the hell are you even talking about anymore? At no point in this rambling, incoherent post did you even remotely address any topic that anyone is talking about.

Seriously, I will say whatever you want me to about Cam Newton if you will stop bumping threads with 8 paragraphs of gibberish interspersed with random bolds and statistics made up by people who wear tinfoil hats to protect their brainwaves from aliens.

[The_Mango55]

You didn't answer my questions. Is it not practically guaranteed that even a scrub, no good, bottom of the league NFL offense is guaranteed at least 3 points when you give them the ball at the 16 yard line? Nine out of 10 times, if your offenses name is not the 2011 Carolina Panthers, who is the only team that's so freaking efficient at this misery, aren't you going to get at least a field goal when you start your drive at the 16 yard line?

Did we not just lose that game by 3 again?

I answered your question. Yes holding them to 3 points would be totally acceptable in that situation, I'd be happy with the defense if they could regularly hold teams to 3 points when they get within the 30. Unfortunately it seems we've got one of the worst red zone defenses in the leauge.

Offenses don't score 3 points, they never score 3 points. There's not an offensive play in the playbook that nets 3 points. Only special teams can score 3 points and ours didn't get it done.

Are you really blaming BOTH of those fumbles on Cam? The first one was vaugley Cam's responsibility since he could have stepped up in the pocket more, but D Williams takes at least 50% of the blame for missing the block. The second one was 100% on Gross, it literally would have happened to every QB in the NFL.

[Camdemonium]

Pantherball you really are stretching reality with this pithy argument. And frankly it is all you and guys like TRD have left.

I've given Cam lots of props lately. Get out of the stone age man. He gets credit and blame equally.

If Steve Smith makes all these number somewhat artificial why didn't he help Jake the last couple of years, Matt Moore, or Clausen?

Smith had very good numbers when Moore was the QB.