Merril hodge says cam newton a top 5 qb right now.

[Pantherball]

Simple question Pantherball...since you harp on the "performance in the clutch" thing so much: what more could Cam have done on the final drive against Minnesota that he didn't do?

It is a simple question. Four paragraphs are not required. Just a short, simple, concise answer.

Simple: score or get a first down on one of the 3 passing attempts prior to the FG.

Concise: Considering Cam Newton's completion percentage is 60% and averages 8.8 yards per attempt, one should expect that to have taken place. However, considering his completion percentage in the 4th in comeback wins or game winning drives drops to 47% and 5.1 ypa(4.8 ypa sack adjusted) our losses that situations fits right in with the numbers. He was 75% as a passer on that last series but his ypa dropped to 4.0ypa which continues his inconsistency and is the type of thing that leads to a 60.0 QB rating in those situations. In the NFL, a 60 QB passer rating means not good enough for a first down by way of pass. This also has to do with the fact that receivers don't have as much room to run and get him yac in the red-zone. He has to be more patient wait, and throw a very tight throw when the receiver is closer to or beyond the first down marker. You can see why he then got us us 7 when we need it 5, 0 when we needed 3, and 5 when we needed 7. It's not just simply completing a pass but how, when and where you put that ball so your receiver can get the extra yard or two that you need. He gets flustered though and so these mistakes take place.

He was better against Minnesota though. There was improvement. He was almost but it's also the third almost this year in the exact same situation. It's getting old.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

No problem but it's not that easy. I'm going to have to give you 3 and a calculator, because you're not going to find this on Cam anywhere yet, at least I didn't. The secret's not out yet. Sites typically only do this to compare elite QB's. I had to do it myself.

So what you do is first you go here: http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=310911022&period=4

1. Identify if thee is a point in the 4th quarter where we are down by less than 8 points or tied and the offense has the ball. If there is, that qualifies as a comeback or game winning drive. Count passing attempts, completions, yardage, TD's, Interceptions. Add them up for each qualifying drive.

2. You open notepad and begin jogging them down( You can also count sacks if you want sack adjusted statistics). Use your calculator to add up the numbers.

2. You find you a QB rating calculator: http://www.primecomputing.com. You punch them in. Repeat the process for every game we played this year.

Or you could just take my word for it. No?;) No problem...I already did all the work in presentable fashion(best I could anyway) last week, and I saved it...so you can just overlook the numbers yourself.

Now just add the Vikings game to that(don't feel like color coding it): 22/35 290 117.6

First three quarters:14/25 234 127.3

4th quarter:7/10 56 0 0 75.4

Garbage: NA

Adjusted:NA

Advanced:

7/11 48 0 0 65.3

And your current results are this:

First three quarters: 93.63

4th quarter comeback game/game winning: 60.0 QB rating

Sack adjusted: 52.0 in our 6 losses.

I didn't bother with the alternate. His garbage time remains the same because there was no garbage time in the Vikings game, it came down to the last second.

Considering Cam Newton's completion percentage is 60% and averages 8.8 yards per attempt, one should expect that to have taken place. However, considering his completion percentage in the 4th in comeback wins or game winning drives drops to 47% and 5.1 ypa(4.8 ypa sack adjusted) our losses that situations fits right in with the numbers. He was 75% as a passer on that last series but his ypa dropped to 4.0ypa which continues his inconsistency and is the type of thing that leads to a 60.0 QB rating in those situations. In the NFL, a 60 QB passer rating means not good enough for a first down by way of pass. This also has to do with the fact that receivers don't have as much room to run and get him yac in the red-zone. He has to be more patient wait, and throw a very tight throw when the receiver is closer to or beyond the first down marker. You can see why he then got us us 7 when we need it 5, 0 when we needed 3, and 5 when we needed 7. It's not just simply completing a pass but how, when and where you put that ball so your receiver can get the extra yard or two that you need. He gets flustered though and so these mistakes take place.

Jesus. I think I will let Mike Tanier of Football Outsiders and notable stat lover and innovator give his opinion on stats like this:

Be wary of those who try to objectify the subjective. If a guy tells me he watched 16 Jets games and saw Nick Mangold make a bunch of great pull blocks, I will listen. If he says he saw him make 22 great pull blocks, well, counting is nice, though I would question whether the guy knows a pull block from a fold block and what "great" means. If he tells me Mangold has a Pull Block Index of 3.2 or something, I smile politely and leave. It's not that the guy isn't trying or doesn't know a lot about football, it's that he's buried too many subjective opinions in a "statistic" that then pretends to be objective to the tenth decimal. I usually take that as a hint that the guy doesn't know enough about football, scouting, or statistics, and he is either unaware of his ignorance or deliberately trying to hide it.

[Pantherball]

I know it's when the teams are with in 7 points, that being either up 7, tied or down 7. That's the time when you need your QB the most, he's performed over and over again. It can't keep falling on his shoulders at the end of every single game to pull it out. He's got to get help from the defense and ST's.

If you use advanced stats then he's clearly a top 5-10 QB, he's top 5 in EPA, EPAP, deep %, AYPA. 13th in WPA and WPAG. His DYAR is top ten, DVOA is 12th.

The losses aren't just on Cam Newton, you can't just judge a QB by wins and losses. You also can't judge a rookie QB on 4th quarter effectiveness. The NFL game is tougher on the body both physically and mentally, it takes time to adjust to.

Peyton Manning, John Elway, Steve Young, Brett Favre, Dan Marino and Troy Aikman's rookie season's attest to that. I'm not discrediting your stats and your compiling of them. What I'm saying is that the Panthers team is bad, injured and everything falls onto Cam's shoulder's to get it done. When you factor everything in, he's done a fantastic job. Of course there's room for improvement, but he's on his way to being the best QB in the NFL. A bit more polish here and there and he's there.

He has only performed once in the 4th quarter when the game was on the line, not over and over. 1 time out of 14 tries. The reason he keeps having to do it over and over throughout the rest of the game is because of the fumbles or interceptions by Cam Newton. The defense isn't putting him up in that spot. He is. He has gotten help from the defense, including yesterday.

The reason he's in those situations in the first place was reasons like the 2 fumbles earlier in the game yesterday, which gave Minnesota 14 easy points. It put Minnesota's second starting drive at our 16 yard line and made it very easy for them to get 7 points. The second fumble put Minnesota at our 42, another short field scoring drive which lead to another 7 points for Minnesota.

The defense also kept Minnesota to a FG on their first possession of the game, which they missed. So defense gets Cam 2 extra possessions, while Cam puts our D on the field two extra times.

The defense, or more specifically Captain Munnerlyn, also got him a turn over yesterday, which took a possession away from Minnesota to make up for at least one of the drives Minnesota got due to 2 fumbles and prevented a scoring drive at our 5 yard line. Once again we came away with 0 points on this too.

Who's not helping who here?

He's getting some crazy blocks from our receivers and running backs too and reaping the rewards of Steve's yardage by punching in some easy TD's while Steve, the #1 receiver in the NFL with 918 yards has 4. Naanee hasn't said a peep even though everyone's blaming him quite a bit for everything that seems to go wrong on the offense. All of these guys, including the OC, are helping him play his style. They are all taking the hits on stats, taking the backseat with the fans for a rookie, taking the heat for his mistakes and still fighting just as hard for him after he's failed to win the close game week after week.

So I don't see how you are saying he's not getting help when he is. His interceptions, 29th in the league, is what's hurting our defense and putting him in situations unfavorable to his QB play at the moment. He needs to help them and himself out because they are not a top 10 defense, although they played like one yesterday. He needs to help the team and his fans out out by doing better than 1 out of 14 at putting the game away.

So again, fans need to stop crying a river over the defense screwing Cam when in reality Cam's screwing over D, and regurgitating stupid things ESPN and the media is saying. These guys are busting their asses out there. He's getting plenty of help. He has a #1 receiver to throw the ball to, 2 TE's, and 2 star running backs, both of which can catch, that have now become his personal body guards when trying to throw the ball and he hangs on to it too much.

So to recap(for those who like cliff notes):

-D gets Cam 2 extra possessions, including stopping Minnesota on their first drive and one more from Captain Munnerlyn to prevent a scoring drive. D gives Cam the chance to score first and get the ball first in the second half

-Instead of getting us the first points, Cam gives it right back and puts the D in a possession to get scored on first having to defend from short fields. Cam puts the D on the field 2 extra times and Cam takes Cam off the field those 2 times while D puts Cam on the field 2 extra times.

-D only allows one TD the rest of the game after all that mess.

-D holds Minnesota to 3 points or less for 3 back to back offensive possessions late in the game for Cam to go win it, one at the bottom of the third and 2 in the 4th quarter to get the go ahead score.

-Cam fails to score on any of the 3 at the end and as well as the 2 the D go him in the first half.

-D also held Minnesota to 0 points after we went up by 7 in the second half, giving Cam a chance to go up by 2 scores(hint hint: this is when he's good in the 4th).

- Cam and this offense fails to take advantage of this and fails to score a measly 3 points for a tie or a TD for a win, the final 5 possessions and 25 minutes of game time. (This isn't the first time this O has gone for that long without scoring this year. They went the last 4 offensive possessions and 21 minutes without a score against Atlanta.)

-The rest of our O "pawns" play whatever roles are asked of them to make Cam comfortable in playing his game.

Exactly how much more help than all that does sir Newton require from his "slaves", and sir Newton's followers from their pinatas before they can be considered good enough to play along with him and up to his "exceptional level" of play just described above before we can win a freaking close game? Get the winning points for him too?;)

[carpanfan96]

A top ten defense doesn't give up 360 yards to a rookie QB and one of the worst offenses in the league. I'm sorry, the defense played horrible against the Vikings. They held AP to 81 yards rushing, but he also had similar rec stats and 2 td's. Horrible defense, I gave you a stat on other top QB's, they are all turning the ball over and are right there with Cam Newton stat wise.

The difference??? Their defense and ST's stepped up in critical situations to help the QB get the win. Newton's turnover's aren't the reasoning for losing, if it was then Brady, Brees and a host of other QB's would be in the same boat and aren't. The missed FG wasn't his fault, the holding call wasn't his fault. The defense falling off and playing the worst half of football this defense has played all season isn't Newton's fault.

The defense is now ranked 29th in yards allowed at 358.8 per game, they are 28th in scoring defense, 29th in rushing, and 21st in passing yards. ST's is ranked dead last in the NFL as well in most categories.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

You make it sound like driving down to the goal line at the end of the game is an epic failure. He drove us into field goal range late in the fourth quarter in every game. Tom Brady was an all time clutch quarterback his first few years for doing the same thing.

We just happened to need a touchdown which is substantially more difficult or missed the field goal. Cam has not played that badly late in games. Give it up.

[Guest moninghaly]

Great

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

@ Pantherball...

So Cam is putting us in positions to lose...as the defense cannot get off the field giving up 3rd down conversions. He had zero ints last week.

I know he is supposed to be a hall of famer 7 games in...at QB and CB,DT I guess.

Tom Brady didnt play defense last week either and they lost...hmm

This is confusing: an avg QB with good defense = good

Exceptional qb with bad defense= bad(we have to overcome having Cam)

Give me a break.

[teeray]

He has only performed once in the 4th quarter when the game was on the line, not over and over. 1 time out of 14 tries. The reason he keeps having to do it over and over throughout the rest of the game is because of the fumbles or interceptions by Cam Newton. The defense isn't putting him up in that spot. He is. He has gotten help from the defense, including yesterday.

The reason he's in those situations in the first place was reasons like the 2 fumbles earlier in the game yesterday, which gave Minnesota 14 easy points. It put Minnesota's second starting drive at our 16 yard line and made it very easy for them to get 7 points. The second fumble put Minnesota at our 42, another short field scoring drive which lead to another 7 points for Minnesota.

The defense also kept Minnesota to a FG on their first possession of the game, which they missed. So defense gets Cam 2 extra possessions, while Cam puts our D on the field two extra times.

The defense, or more specifically Captain Munnerlyn, also got him a turn over yesterday, which took a possession away from Minnesota to make up for at least one of the drives Minnesota got due to 2 fumbles and prevented a scoring drive at our 5 yard line. Once again we came away with 0 points on this too.

Who's not helping who here?

He's getting some crazy blocks from our receivers and running backs too and reaping the rewards of Steve's yardage by punching in some easy TD's while Steve, the #1 receiver in the NFL with 918 yards has 4. Naanee hasn't said a peep even though everyone's blaming him quite a bit for everything that seems to go wrong on the offense. All of these guys, including the OC, are helping him play his style. They are all taking the hits on stats, taking the backseat with the fans for a rookie, taking the heat for his mistakes and still fighting just as hard for him after he's failed to win the close game week after week.

So I don't see how you are saying he's not getting help when he is. His interceptions, 29th in the league, is what's hurting our defense and putting him in situations unfavorable to his QB play at the moment. He needs to help them and himself out because they are not a top 10 defense, although they played like one yesterday. He needs to help the team and his fans out out by doing better than 1 out of 14 at putting the game away.

So again, fans need to stop crying a river over the defense screwing Cam when in reality Cam's screwing over D, and regurgitating stupid things ESPN and the media is saying. These guys are busting their asses out there. He's getting plenty of help. He has a #1 receiver to throw the ball to, 2 TE's, and 2 star running backs, both of which can catch, that have now become his personal body guards when trying to throw the ball and he hangs on to it too much.

So to recap(for those who like cliff notes):

-D gets Cam 2 extra possessions, including stopping Minnesota on their first drive and one more from Captain Munnerlyn to prevent a scoring drive. D gives Cam the chance to score first and get the ball first in the second half

-Instead of getting us the first points, Cam gives it right back and puts the D in a possession to get scored on first having to defend from short fields. Cam puts the D on the field 2 extra times and Cam takes Cam off the field those 2 times while D puts Cam on the field 2 extra times.

-D only allows one TD the rest of the game after all that mess.

-D holds Minnesota to 3 points or less for 3 back to back offensive possessions late in the game for Cam to go win it, one at the bottom of the third and 2 in the 4th quarter to get the go ahead score.

-Cam fails to score on any of the 3 at the end and as well as the 2 the D go him in the first half.

-D also held Minnesota to 0 points after we went up by 7 in the second half, giving Cam a chance to go up by 2 scores(hint hint: this is when he's good in the 4th).

- Cam and this offense fails to take advantage of this and fails to score a measly 3 points for a tie or a TD for a win, the final 5 possessions and 25 minutes of game time. (This isn't the first time this O has gone for that long without scoring this year. They went the last 4 offensive possessions and 21 minutes without a score against Atlanta.)

-The rest of our O "pawns" play whatever roles are asked of them to make Cam comfortable in playing his game.

Exactly how much more help than all that does sir Newton require from his "slaves", and sir Newton's followers from their pinatas before they can be considered good enough to play along with him and up to his "exceptional level" of play just described above before we can win a freaking close game? Get the winning points for him too?;)

Most even average defenses can absorb a turnover or two and still not give up 24 points in a game. Stop defending the defense. It sounds foolish and it sounds like you are being disingenuous in your quest to saddle Cam Newton with the blame for our record.

Just because you turn the ball over, even on a short field, doesn't mean it is okay to let then walk into the end zone. If we hold them to field goals one time during on of those short field drives we are winning the game at the end instead of behind at the end.

Having a fumble on the 40 yards line doesn't absolve the defense from giving up a 42 yard TD drive in 20 seconds before half!!

In other words quit trying absolve our defense from any blame and try to shoulder it all on Cam's shoulders. When you do things like that it makes it very hard to take you seriously.

[bigcatdaddy]

@Pantherball

What is all the Cam hate for? He has played great so far, and he is a ROOKIE so a few mistakes are going to happen. You don't like him because he hasn't lead a 4th quarter comeback yet? Once again he is a ROOKIE and he has lead the team down the field at least twice this year in games to give us a chance to win or tie the game and the drives are stopped by bad play calling or a hold. What about the 44 yard pass to LaFell on 4th and 15 to get the 1st down and keep the drive going? Nobody on this board wants to win more than me but to try and put the blame on Newton because the team can't get it together at the end and score is ridiculous. How about our defense does something so we don't have to have a comeback. It really makes you wonder about these people that hate on Cam, why do they hate so much and why do they try and find any little thing about him to complain about? Is is race? Sadly I think some of it is since we are Panther fans and he is our QB why not embrace him?

[Pantherball]

@ Pantherball...

So Cam is putting us in positions to lose...as the defense cannot get off the field giving up 3rd down conversions. He had zero ints last week.

I know he is supposed to be a hall of famer 7 games in...at QB and CB,DT I guess.

Tom Brady didnt play defense last week either and they lost...hmm

This is confusing: an avg QB with good defense = good

Exceptional qb with bad defense= bad(we have to overcome having Cam)

Give me a break.

This is false and another bullpoo lie that you guys keep spewing which again I just proved this wrong above for Minnesota if you wanna take the time to look at the facts. We had +2 possession in the game yesterday compared to Minnesota thanks to our D getting us a stop on their first drive, us getting the ball in the second half and 1 turnover also thanks to our D.

Cam however has taken HIMSELF off the field, and in the same token he's put our defense on the field 2 times. This has happened just about every game.

I could crunch the numbers for the season, but since I know it won't make a difference in how you see things I'm not sure I wanna waste my time.

And you're right he had 0 interceptions 2 games ago. Guess what happened? We won. 0-6 now when we don't turn over the ball. This streak, like his 4th quarter stat when we are down or tied continues.

Cam Newton exceptional QB. Give me a break!:rolleyes

Exceptional rookie. Yeah he can be described as such. Exceptional NFL QB that's playing efficiently enough to win games: fug NO!

[The_Mango55]

Are you really blaming BOTH of those fumbles on Cam? The first one was vaugley Cam's responsibility since he could have stepped up in the pocket more, but D Williams takes at least 50% of the blame for missing the block. The second one was 100% on Gross, it literally would have happened to every QB in the NFL.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

And you're right he had 0 interceptions 2 games ago. Guess what happened? We won. 0-6 now when we don't turn over the ball. This streak, like his 4th quarter stat when we are down or tied continues.

What NFL team doesn't average at least a turnover a game? Maybe one or two? That's a fairly ridiculous criticism.

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

This is false and another bullpoo lie that you guys keep spewing which again I just proved this wrong above for Minnesota if you wanna take the time to look at the facts. We had +2 possession in the game yesterday compared to Minnesota thanks to our D getting us a stop on their first drive, us getting the ball in the second half and 1 turnover also thanks to our D.

Cam however has taken HIMSELF off the field, and in the same token he's put our defense on the field 2 times. This has happened just about every game.

I could crunch the numbers for the season, but since I know it won't make a difference in how you see things I'm not sure I wanna waste my time.

And you're right he had 0 interceptions 2 games ago. Guess what happened? We won. 0-6 now when we don't turn over the ball. This streak, like his 4th quarter stat when we are down or tied continues.

Cam Newton exceptional QB. Give me a break!:rolleyes

Exceptional rookie. Yeah he can be described as such. Exceptional NFL QB that's playing efficiently enough to win games: fug NO!

To answer the Bullpoo regarding his performance...what are you watching? Did you bet on the game? Is a bookie after you?

Here, its called a box score..

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011103003/2011/REG8/vikings@panthers#menu=gameinfo&tab=analyze

No need to crunch numbers where you would find the panthers Third down Defense in the bottom 5 of the league...again if you watch this..you would see it. Getting drunk, yelling at Newton the whole game may skew your perspective.

Are you Skip Bayless?

[Pantherball]

@Pantherball

What is all the Cam hate for? He has played great so far, and he is a ROOKIE so a few mistakes are going to happen. You don't like him because he hasn't lead a 4th quarter comeback yet? Once again he is a ROOKIE and he has lead the team down the field at least twice this year in games to give us a chance to win or tie the game and the drives are stopped by bad play calling or a hold. What about the 44 yard pass to LaFell on 4th and 15 to get the 1st down and keep the drive going? Nobody on this board wants to win more than me but to try and put the blame on Newton because the team can't get it together at the end and score is ridiculous. How about our defense does something so we don't have to have a comeback. It really makes you wonder about these people that hate on Cam, why do they hate so much and why do they try and find any little thing about him to complain about? Is is race? Sadly I think some of it is since we are Panther fans and he is our QB why not embrace him?

I am not hating. I'm only telling you the numbers, that is all. You guys are nuts and are the ones hating on the D with a bunch of false poo. You guys are looking at specific examples and I'm giving you recap of a 6 game analysis. You don't think 6 games is enough but you believe one big play on the field proves something.

And that bolded part continues the nonsenese. It's not the defense putting us in a comeback situation. It's CAM! His turnovers are also the reason our D gets put in a pooty spot. They do in fact try to do something about it and help him out. They have gotten us turnovers.

I am only telling you the numbers. That is all. Trying to make you see some facts and truth. I'm trying to stop some from drinking any more of that juice because you really do sound like a bunch of angry drunk men taking out their aggression on their family because their new mistress are breaking their hearts.

Seriously, come back to EARTH!