Just tell the truth about Jake...you don't love him

[Mattiekrome]

????????

OK, I'll be the first to say it... I never knew the Pointer Sisters where black... I dunno, maybe the name always made me think old white women... :confused:

[carpanfan96]

compared to.....

last season

prc - Player - average

59.4 - Jake - 7.9

59.9 - Big Ben - 7.0

60.0 - Flacco - 6.9

60.3 - Eli Manning - 6.8

60.4 - McNabb - 6.9

61.1 - Ryan - 7.9

[AKPantherFan]

I would say "mediocre" is a QB that cant cut it in the NFL.

You have to remember that the "best of the best" line up every Sunday.

So in that aspect, Delhomme is AT LEAST 1/2 best in the League right now.

12-4 earned him that.....

not to mention that he probably has a better winning record than about 3/4 of the league's QB's right now.

[Ccat]

Are we really going to debate whether or not Jake Delhomme is an accurate QB???

Do those statistics you wrote not scream average to you??

I like Jake, I love the leadership he brings to our team, but when it come to talent at the QB spot this team needs to be looking elsewhere. He's mediocre, who gets a ton of credit for game winning drives where Steve Smith bails him out.

Heck, I can think of three games off the top of my head just from last year, where Smith made the play on a chuck and pray from delhomme.

1. Arizona part one (not really a bad throw by jake, as much as it was a great play by smith)

2. Green Bay

3. New orleans part two

To all those defending jake left and right, I would like to see you rank the NFL QB's if you wouldn't mind taking the time. I want to get a good picture at where you feel Jake ranks among the other 31 starting QB's in the league.

Is he in the top fifteen, fifteen to twenty, or lower. I'm curious.

Here's how I see it objectively.

Top ten: In no particular order.

Manning, Brady, Rivers, Cutler, Roethlisburger, Brees, Warner, Mcnabb, Palmer, Rodgers.

10-15

E. Manning, Hasselbeck, Rodgers, Schaub, Ryan

15-25

Flacco, Romo, Pennington, Delhomme, Garcia, Cassel, Garrard

I get him 15 at best....just curious what others come up with

Well your list has Rodgers twice first of all. Also I really would not put Cutler that much above Jake honestly. Eli Manning is better but not by a ton. I def. would rather have Delhomme than Schaub, Hasselback, or Romo. Delhomme isn't amazing but he is in the top half of the starting QBs in my opinion.

[Jangler]

Top 25 All time QB ratings. Some of the QBs didn't play during the QB rating system so they were calculated to rank them.

Rank Quarterback Passer Rating

1 Steve Young 96.8

2 Peyton Manning 94.7

3 Kurt Warner 93.8

4 Tom Brady 92.9

5 Joe Montana 92.3

6 Chad Pennington 90.6

7 Ben Roethlisberger 89.4

8 Drew Brees 89.4

9 Daunte Culpepper 89.0

10 Carson Palmer 88.9

11 Jeff Garcia 87.5

12 Dan Marino 86.4

13 Trent Green 86.0

14 Donovan McNabb 85.9

15 Marc Bulger 85.6

16 Brett Favre 85.4

17 Jake Delhomme 85.1

18 Rich Gannon 84.7

19 Matt Hasselbeck 84.5

20 Jim Kelly 84.4

21 Mark Brunell 84.2

22 Roger Staubach 83.4

23 Steve McNair 82.8

24 Brian Griese 82.7

25 Neil Lomax 82.7

IDK, 17 all time seam pretty good to me. Just feels like some people want to bitch about any and everything. We could have P.Manning and I sure some would bitch about his audibles.

How many would take Pennington right now? How many Superbowl appearances does he have? Hell how many Divisional championships does he have?

just for the hell of it...

Jay Culter His career passer rating is 87.1. He has thrown 54 touchdowns to 37 interceptions and has completed 62.5 percent of his passes.

[OneBadassCat]

Are we really going to debate whether or not Jake Delhomme is an accurate QB???

Do those statistics you wrote not scream average to you??

I like Jake, I love the leadership he brings to our team, but when it come to talent at the QB spot this team needs to be looking elsewhere. He's mediocre, who gets a ton of credit for game winning drives where Steve Smith bails him out.

Heck, I can think of three games off the top of my head just from last year, where Smith made the play on a chuck and pray from delhomme.

1. Arizona part one (not really a bad throw by jake, as much as it was a great play by smith)

2. Green Bay

3. New orleans part two

To all those defending jake left and right, I would like to see you rank the NFL QB's if you wouldn't mind taking the time. I want to get a good picture at where you feel Jake ranks among the other 31 starting QB's in the league.

Is he in the top fifteen, fifteen to twenty, or lower. I'm curious.

Here's how I see it objectively.

Top ten: In no particular order.

Manning, Brady, Rivers, Cutler, Roethlisburger, Brees, Warner, Mcnabb, Palmer, Rodgers.

10-15

E. Manning, Hasselbeck, Rodgers, Schaub, Ryan

15-25

Flacco, Romo, Pennington, Delhomme, Garcia, Cassel, Garrard

I get him 15 at best....just curious what others come up with

I would put him at about13-14. He's as good as Hasslebeck if you include his 4th qtr ability. He's just as good as Romo for the same reason, he's a much better leader.

He's an average QB physically but he does have great leadership qualities and he is king of 4th qtr heroics. He just lets his emotion get the best of him sometimes and it forces him to try and make plays, like forcing it WRs and such.

But i think alot of people underrate his game. I myself question his arm but the man is not simply play action chuck it to Smith hope he makes a play. I think he is a much more competent and methodical QB than people give him credit for. I mean he's not making every single adjustment or audible like Peyton Manning or anything but he definitely has read and react capability.

[top dawg]

Amazing how many folks just don't get it :nonod:

None of the people that I've seen who defend Jake would classify him as a Top 5 or Franchise type QB. And most of us frankly don't care.

He's far from the best QB in the league, and so what? Fact is that he is the best option that's available right now. Nobody else that's realistically available represents any sort of upgrade, so what's the point?

There are only two classes of quarterback that matter: Those that are good enough to win a Super Bowl and those that aren't. Despite his last playoff game, I still put Jake in category one.

Whether he's a star, a stat leader or a face of the franchise doesn't mean jack to me.

Just don't get what, Scottie? You are missing my point as usual, man. The responses to this thread---yours included---was the whole point I was trying to bring out. Many people have the appearance of hugging Jake's nuts (as some of you would put it), but in fact only "support" Jake as our QB because he is our best option. Many of these same people patronize other people for even hinting that perhaps its time to part the ways with Jake, regardless if it's pretty much a fact that he will be under center because there are no other "good or better" options that are apparent. Granted, some may go overboard with the same recycled threads in new clothing, but that goes both ways---whether you're on the right or the left of an issue (and, sometimes new clothing---along with a shave, a haircut, and some "smell-good" is just what the doctor ordered). Discussions, and even endless discussions, on an issue are really to be expected until the door is shut, and Fox left that little crack open where Jake is concerned.

I have been around too long, listening to the NFL-speak used by coaches and others in the FO, to think that just because a door appears completely shut, that it is. Until then, it's all fair game to me, particularly when we honestly, really, just don't have that much to talk about on the Panthers home front.

I am a get down to the basics---get to the point kind of guy. Why beat around the bush? See through the B.S. and get to the nitty gritty.

From reading some of the responses, I confirmed what I had suspected. When you maneuver through all the B.S.--- the pontificating, philosophizing, positivity, negativity, signifying, patronizing, sarcasm, etc. etc.---the majority of people "support" Jake as the QB by default. That is no reflection on whether or not he is a great person, a top 5 QB, or whatever you think that he is, or think that he is not. As a QB for the Carolina Panthers, Jake is supported by default, and this realization kind of speaks to the hollowness and B.S. that abounds in the Huddle when it comes to this subject.

[bigdog_10_2002]

Not trying to be an ass bigdog, but you do realize that Eli's accuracy is about the same as Jake's, right?

Your no ass fireball, I respect your opinion and your football knowledge. My ranking of Eli has more to do with what he can become in the future. He's younger than Delhomme currently, but skill wise I would say he's slightly above Delhomme.

But i think alot of people underrate his game

I agreed with nearly your whole post until this comment. I'm the exact opposite. I think most in the NFL know what Jake is. He's a fierce competitor who, with that same competitive spirit, will win you games and lose them. He's been a blessing to this franchise, who before he came in wasn't exactly looking stellar at the QB position. He's been nothing but class and has taken this team to great heights. However, they also know ability wise, he's average. I think the majority of our fanbase over-rates him.

Is he the best QB this franchise has ever had. Absolutely

Is that a reason to be complacent with the QB position. I don't think so

Well your list has Rodgers twice first of all. Also I really would not put Cutler that much above Jake honestly. Eli Manning is better but not by a ton. I def. would rather have Delhomme than Schaub, Hasselback, or Romo. Delhomme isn't amazing but he is in the top half of the starting QBs in my opinion.

Good catch on the rodgers thing, For some reason i'm not allowed to edit my previous posts, hence the grammar mistakes and the messed up list. As far as taking Delhomme over the QB's you listed above, I can understand that, but i'm not basing this on leadership at all. If it was soley based on what Jake brings to this team from a leadership perspective, he would be in the top ten easily. I'm basing it soley on QB ability, and Romo, hasselbeck and schaub (IMO) are currently better or as good as Delhomme.

I would say "mediocre" is a QB that cant cut it in the NFL.

You have to remember that the "best of the best" line up every Sunday.

So in that aspect, Delhomme is AT LEAST 1/2 best in the League right now.

12-4 earned him that.....

not to mention that he probably has a better winning record than about 3/4 of the league's QB's right now.

Mediocre with respect to the other 31 starting QB's not every other out of college QB who is trying to make it in the NFL. If we look at it that way, Jake would be a great QB, as would be the likes of Tavaris Jackson and Dan Orlovsky (seeing that he did start some games for the lions).

One more thing about your post that I see a lot on this board is the whole winning percentage thing for a QB. This is often brought up when someone is defending Jake. Why is the QB judged by the teams wins and losses? I understand he is a key, if not the key piece to the team's wins and losses, however if a QB goes out and has a breakout year with 25 td's and 10 int's yet his team ranks defensively in the bottom 5 of the league and his team wins 4 games.....does that make him a bad QB. Take the year Cutler had for an example from this past year (and before anyone starts...i'm not on the trade for cutler bandwagon)....or to counter that look at pennington. Are we ready to put pennington in the top 10 just because he was efficient in the dolphin offense with a resurgent defense. Just food for thought

Just feels like some people want to bitch about any and everything

I'm assuming this was being directed at me. Which is fine, but if you can find another thread i've posted in since the end of the season pissing and moaning about anything....I would love to see it. (Bar the college basketball forum of course)

[MadHatter]

Are we really going to debate whether or not Jake Delhomme is an accurate QB???

Do those statistics you wrote not scream average to you??

I like Jake, I love the leadership he brings to our team, but when it come to talent at the QB spot this team needs to be looking elsewhere. He's mediocre, who gets a ton of credit for game winning drives where Steve Smith bails him out.

Heck, I can think of three games off the top of my head just from last year, where Smith made the play on a chuck and pray from delhomme.

1. Arizona part one (not really a bad throw by jake, as much as it was a great play by smith)

2. Green Bay

3. New orleans part two

To all those defending jake left and right, I would like to see you rank the NFL QB's if you wouldn't mind taking the time. I want to get a good picture at where you feel Jake ranks among the other 31 starting QB's in the league.

Is he in the top fifteen, fifteen to twenty, or lower. I'm curious.

Here's how I see it objectively.

Top ten: In no particular order.

Manning, Brady, Rivers, Cutler, Roethlisburger, Brees, Warner, Mcnabb, Palmer, Rodgers.

10-15

E. Manning, Hasselbeck, Rodgers, Schaub, Ryan

15-25

Flacco, Romo, Pennington, Delhomme, Garcia, Cassel, Garrard

I get him 15 at best....just curious what others come up with

Got a few issues with your list:

1. I like Delhomme as our QB. He is top 10-15 and has great intangible leadership abilities. Would I replace him with a Top 5 QB.....sure. However, how are you going to pull that one off. If it were so easy to have a Top 5 QB, every team that is struggling right now would make that move. Jake is more than solid for this team..

2. Cutler has a strong arm, but no leadership/intangibles. He is a whiney little bitch that has not been able to lead his team to anything. Denver can keep him. I would not trade Jake for him.

3. I would not take Romo (never can win a big game) or Garcia (sucks in anything other than WC Offense) to lead this type of offense.

4. I like Ryan, but one season is not enough to anoint anything in this league....anyone remember Anderson in Cleveland.

5. Cassell....let me see more than one season in the Belichek offense to make any type of judgement on his true abilities.

In short, Delhomme is not an All-Pro QB. But, you cannot have All-Pro at every position in this time of FA and Salary Cap.

For those newbies who do not understand this, please stick with Madden...as it is very apparent that you actually believe that Madden is real football.

[bigdog_10_2002]

Let me clarify something.

I think Jake Delhomme is our best starting option for the next season and believe he should be our QB.

However, I think the search for his succesor needs to be ramped up a bit. That is of course unless they believe Mccown or Moore to be that guy. Which may be the case, and hopefully our new QB coach can develop one or the two of these guys to where they can become a better QB than Jake is. Currently, neither of the two is at that point.

[MadHatter]

Let me clarify something.

I think Jake Delhomme is our best starting option for the next season and believe he should be our QB.

However, I think the search for his succesor needs to be ramped up a bit. That is of course unless they believe Mccown or Moore to be that guy. Which may be the case, and hopefully our new QB coach can develop one or the two of these guys to where they can become a better QB than Jake is. Currently, neither of the two is at that point.

I agree that there needs to be alot of thought in the organization about who Delhomme's successor will be.

I for one think you must do what Green Bay did....look to the future before the present is changed. The Favre fiasco was a joke, but they were ready to let him go with Rodgers.

Delhomme on has a few years left. Maybe the FO thinks McCown or Moore is the next guy, but I have my doubts. They are servicable back-ups, but need to see more to make a judgement....but then again, the coaches and FO see alot more of these guys than any of us ever will.

[bigdog_10_2002]

Got a few issues with your list:

1. I like Delhomme as our QB. He is top 10-15 and has great intangible leadership abilities. Would I replace him with a Top 5 QB.....sure. However, how are you going to pull that one off. If it were so easy to have a Top 5 QB, every team that is struggling right now would make that move. Jake is more than solid for this team..

2. Cutler has a strong arm, but no leadership/intangibles. He is a whiney little bitch that has not been able to lead his team to anything. Denver can keep him. I would not trade Jake for him.

3. I would not take Romo (never can win a big game) or Garcia (sucks in anything other than WC Offense) to lead this type of offense.

4. I like Ryan, but one season is not enough to anoint anything in this league....anyone remember Anderson in Cleveland.

5. Cassell....let me see more than one season in the Belichek offense to make any type of judgement on his true abilities.

In short, Delhomme is not an All-Pro QB. But, you cannot have All-Pro at every position in this time of FA and Salary Cap.

For those newbies who do not understand this, please stick with Madden...as it is very apparent that you actually believe that Madden is real football.

All valid opinions until you got to this little jab at the end. Why is it that needed? I'm guessing you're refering to me as a newbie, which is pretty comical considering the time i've spent on the old board and this board, but thats neither here nor there.

The thing that gets to me is you "football experts" pull the madden card everytime someone has a different opinion than your own or the collective groups. The madden card is essentially a tool some of you use to end a discussion. It becomes weaker and more watered down everytime you use it.

Maybe replace the madden thing with fantasy football or something, just give us a little variety.

[Fireball77]

Your no ass fireball, I respect your opinion and your football knowledge. My ranking of Eli has more to do with what he can become in the future. He's younger than Delhomme currently, but skill wise I would say he's slightly above Delhomme.

OK, I didn't think you would take me as being a smart alec but I wanted to make sure. I respect your opinions also.

I understand your train of thought. It's not unreasonable by any means, but my opinion differs. I like Eli, but I don't think his accuracy will improve over his career to the point he will be much more than he is now. Hence, I don't see him as being able ever to be head and shoulders above Jake. And I think that's too much money to spend on a guy who I don't think will ever be elite. Would I like a guy like him to QB the team? Sure, but not at that price. He's in line to get a new deal and boy will it be huge and honking. I try to look at every single thing I can think of to decide if a guy is a better option than another guy and one of the big things is value for the dollar.

One more thing about your post that I see a lot on this board is the whole winning percentage thing for a QB. This is often brought up when someone is defending Jake. Why is the QB judged by the teams wins and losses? I understand he is a key, if not the key piece to the team's wins and losses, however if a QB goes out and has a breakout year with 25 td's and 10 int's yet his team ranks defensively in the bottom 5 of the league and his team wins 4 games.....does that make him a bad QB.

I agree wholeheartedly...you won't see me ever give a QB a W-L record. It drives me nuts when I see that. This isn't golf which is an individual pursuit, this is a team sport. Now if you want to say they have a better record when some guy is starting vs another, I think that CAN be a valid point depending on other factors.

[methodtoll]

As most have said, I respect Jake as a person and for what he has done for this team.

Though he has shown that he had bad games, I ask you what QB hasn't had bad games?

and furthermore, Jake knows the system the best and bringing someone in (especially young) would have to learn the system that we run. So in that case, I'd rather have Jake as QB for now and let someone like McCown or Moore continue to learn and improve until they are capable of beating out Delhomme.