Newton the Passer vs Newton the Runner

[Pantherball]

Sure I am.:rolleyes:

[edromeo]

A very accurate passer and an elite, and consistent, accurate passer are two different things.

Lets not delve into semantics.

Warren Moon is every bit as accurate as Manning or Brady.

You have seen Moon play right? I hope you're not basing this off looking at his stats.

You're making assumptions on weather or not Moon would ever be any more accurate playing today.

Of course I'm making an assumption because Warren Moon doesn't play now.

Football isn't baseball and even in baseball comparing stats across eras doesn't make for an even comparison.

You're looking at Brady,Manning stats as reason why they're more 'accurate' then Moon.

Never mind that accuracy is ball placement/location and not comp %.

I think any honest fan can admit the facts.

The NFL has made it easier for QBs to put up big numbers.

The label 'passing league' isn't thrown out their on a whim.

Its a passing league because the rules have made it easier to pass.

Therefore its logical to conclude that either Moon stats would increase if he played now or Brady, Mannings would decrease if they played then.

NO ONE has prevented black QB's from entering the NFL and displaying their elite accurate passing skills.

You must be very young.

There was time in the not distant past where black and white people couldn't drink for the same water fountain to think that thought process didn't cross over into sports is naive.

We'll never now the number of possibly QBs that were moved to other positions going from highschool to college or form college to the pros.

Guess what position Tony Dungy played in college?

PS: Cam has not proven to be an elite QB yet or insanely accurate on a consistent basis despite the zealots who already try to crown him HOF. He's been anything but consistent so far this year so let's wait until he does it before making any more such statements.

Don't create a strawman argument.

My statement was straight forward:

People claimed that Cam wasn't accurate.

Explain that.

[King Taharqa]

So in conclusion, white guys like Pantherball pride themselves on ONLY white QBs being considered elite, but its not racism or racial bias. Its just "stereotyping". LOL.

If Warren Moon a HOFer cant get respect, how do people possibly expect the Pantherballs of the world to respect what a Cam is doing or someone else. They cant, and they wont.

[monstercat]

The bottom line is that Cam Newton is a pocket passer who just happens to have the ability to run for yardage when he has to. He was never a one read and go QB. Coach Rivera pointed this out himself on the radio the other day when he was discussing all the Auburn tape he watched of Cam.

[mav1234]

never heard someone say Moon wasn't accurate before, heh

[Pantherball]

So in conclusion, white guys like Pantherball pride themselves on ONLY white QBs being considered elite, but its not racism or racial bias. Its just "stereotyping". LOL.

If Warren Moon a HOFer cant get respect, how do people possibly expect the Pantherballs of the world to respect what a Cam is doing or someone else. They cant, and they wont.

LOL. OK. I'm a numbers guy. I judge players based on performance. Warren Moon nor Cam Newton measures up yet in neither QB passer rating or completion %.

That's just reality. Not racism.

[mav1234]

btw, I don't disagree racial bias exists (and nor do I disagree it shapes what positions these guys play, though I think a lot of that happens from an early age onward), I just disagree that it was the reason most folks who said Cam was a running quarterback said that. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I always thought it was more the kind of offense he came from that caused that, which is why guys who have come from similar offenses with similar on-the-ground production had similar concerns.

completion percentage is NOT ACCURACY. Stop saying it is! You can't substitute one for the other and act like they are the same thing, nor can you compare two different players completion percentages to try to judge who is more accurate. There are no publicly available stats that record accuracy so you'd have to watch the player.

[King Taharqa]

LOL. OK. I'm a numbers guy. I judge players based on performance. Warren Moon nor Cam Newton measures up yet in neither QB passer rating or completion %.

That's just reality. Not racism.

You're not a numbers guy, you're a selective stat guy who has a bias for white QBs. I said before we drafted Cameron we would have fans who would have issues with how much glory and praise he received. I think PF4L you fit the bill. You believe in Cincinnati's rookie QB a lot more than you do our own. LOL.

[Pantherball]

Lets not delve into semantics.

Warren Moon is every bit as accurate as Manning or Brady.

You have seen Moon play right? I hope you're not basing this off looking at his stats.

Of course I'm making an assumption because Warren Moon doesn't play now.

Football isn't baseball and even in baseball comparing stats across eras doesn't make for an even comparison.

You're looking at Brady,Manning stats as reason why they're more 'accurate' then Moon.

Never mind that accuracy is ball placement/location and not comp %.

I think any honest fan can admit the facts.

The NFL has made it easier for QBs to put up big numbers.

The label 'passing league' isn't thrown out their on a whim.

Its a passing league because the rules have made it easier to pass.

Therefore its logical to conclude that either Moon stats would increase if he played now or Brady, Mannings would decrease if they played then.

You must be very young.

There was time in the not distant past where black and white people couldn't drink for the same water fountain to think that thought process didn't cross over into sports is naive.

We'll never now the number of possibly QBs that were moved to other positions going from highschool to college or form college to the pros.

Guess what position Tony Dungy played in college?

Don't create a strawman argument.

My statement was straight forward:

And I agree that accuracy and completion % are two different things. However as it stands, completion % is the closest thing to it because the NFL never actually tracked true accuracy.

But you're still making assumptions. Warren Moon's QB rating isn't elite either.

And btw, I'm not that young. If you will notice I stated earlier some of the criticism probably has to do with racism. Most of it though doesn't. It does have to do with race, I agree, but not racism. Just history and precedence.

[mav1234]

so you're arguing bias due to race stemming from "history and precedence" isn't racism/racial bias? wtf?

[Pantherball]

You're not a numbers guy, you're a selective stat guy who has a bias for white QBs. I said before we drafted Cameron we would have fans who would have issues with how much glory and praise he received. I think PF4L you fit the bill. You believe in Cincinnati's rookie QB a lot more than you do our own. LOL.

Yes I am a selective stat guy: I believe winning, overall passer rating and completion % matters more than yards when rating a QB. In that order.

You got me!

[mav1234]

Yes I am a selective stat guy: I believe winning, overall passer rating and completion % matters more than yards when rating a QB. In that order.

You got me!

honestly it's a bit unfair to compare stats directly across the ages. That isn't to say that Brady/Manning are better or worse than Moon, because Brady and Manning are two of the best QBs ever to play this game, but so is Moon.

Not all stats, even when they fall into the same category, are equal.

Why exactly does a great quarterback need to put up brady/manning like numbers to be elite, exactly?

[monstercat]

I'll give you an example. I was listening to WFNZ a couple of days ago and they had Darrell "Moose" Johnston on. He was fawning all over Chud for running Auburn plays so that Newton wouldn't have to learn the entire regular offense. This is pure BS. Chud is running those plays in addition to the regular offense, not because Cam can't handle learning Chud's system. Now he didn't come out and say Cam wasn't smart enough, but there was definitely a subtle dig at Cam's intelligence.

The fact is, Chud is adding to the offense every week because Cam is picking it up just fine.

[Pantherball]

so you're arguing bias due to race stemming from "history and precedence" isn't racism/racial bias? wtf?

No, I'm arguing the majority of bias doesn't stem from race. It stems from history and precedence, in which race clearly has its role.

Two different things.

Saying a QB can't be accurate or cerebral enough because he's black is a racist statement.

Saying throughout history black QB's haven't been consistently as accurate on the same level as white QB's isn't. It's just history and precedent.

Expecting black QB's to continue that trend isn't racist, it's history and precedence.

If there had been 30 black QBs to have reached that elite status and people STILL expected black QB's coming out of college to be poor passers then that would be racial bias.