Newton the Passer vs Newton the Runner

[mav1234]

I read the 72 dolphins never actually popped champagne, it was a rumor started on MNF or something

edit: also no I don't think people are stereotyping Cam - when he came out, he'd just ran nearly as often as he passed, so yeah, people thought he was more of a running QB. Doesn't mean they were right in that assessment but I never heard anyone say Freeman was a "running quarterback" really, not nearly as much as Cam anyway (or Russell to go further back), it seems it usually gets applied to QBs who actually run a lot in college... many of whom happen to be black, but not all of them

[Pantherball]

I read the 72 dolphins never actually popped champagne, it was a rumor started on MNF or something

edit: also no I don't think people are stereotyping Cam - when he came out, he'd just ran nearly as often as he passed, so yeah, people thought he was more of a running QB. Doesn't mean they were right in that assessment but I never heard anyone say Freeman was a "running quarterback" really, not nearly as much as Cam anyway (or Russell to go further back), it seems it usually gets applied to QBs who actually run a lot in college... many of whom happen to be black, but not all of them

Maybe it is a rumor I'm not sure, but that's just another example of how we tend to carry on mantra until proven otherwise. All of the other examples stand though.

And that would be my guess too not to mention it's just easier to run in college. And I was guilty of the same thing. And so were a bunch of other people who just didn't pay enough attention. But again, it's precedent and history.

And let me put it to you this way, if I hit a couple of underground hip-hop clubs tomorrow night, you think it's going to be any easier for me to get accepted just because Emminem did it?

But Cam's had it easy for Christ's sake. He's the NFL's poster child and media darling this year. He's handsome, charismatic, great smile, he tries to use big words, and sometimes fails, lol, which makes him even more likable, he looks freaking preppy more than thug, he listened to Jerry about the tattoos. I mean...c'mon. White folks are eating it all up. He's like the best of both worlds, and he's becoming the type of guy both races can get behind.

He's like Ali. And that dude did it back when racism really was in full swing. This would merit a debate if it was between Vince Young. Now there's a guy that may have had it bad, and possibly could have ended up in a bad spot. Warren Moon may have a point there. But certainly not Cam Newton.

But as Ali, and history has proven...if you're just damn good and you are a likable person then race takes a backseat every freaking time.

[teeray]

Why is this news?? I have told ya'll this since January. ;)

Cam was definetly stereotyped coming out of college in some ways but I think people wanted to label him a running qb because of how effective he was running and not necessarily his race.

But that is why I hate when people try to put players in a box. He didn't have to be one or the other. He could be a great runner and a great passer.

[Mr. Scot]

But that is why I hate when people try to put players in a box. He didn't have to be one or the other. He could be a great runner and a great passer.

How many of those can you name (of any race) in the league right now?

There truly aren't that many. It's one of the reasons why we're lucky.

[Darknight]

good point.

you look at vick's injuries this year and they came from being in the pocket.

that's a huge reason why getting a RT needs to be a top priority in the offseason. blind side needs protected and i don't trust anyone we have to do it. bell is a good backup. otah is broken and doesn't care. if he gets hurt, it's going to be because we were lax there. someone is going to get burned or pushed back and rolled into cam's leg.

You mean LT bro. Otah has no chance of protecting the Blind Side of a QB because he is so big and slow and DEs like Julius Peppers and Dwight Freeney can speed right past him. That's Jordan Gross job to protect the blind side. Besides center, the LT is the most important position on the O-Line because they protect the QB blind side. That's why you don't see LG, C, RG, RT go in the top 10 in the draft. It is usually the LT.

Nevertheless, I agree with you though. Wish Otah can stay healthy enough to play.

[Marguide]

I will say this though. Of course they were stereotyping him but I don't think it was so much based on racism as it is a fact that there has yet to be a black quarterback that can really show laser accurate passing on an elite level and do it consistently year after year.

I am guessing you never saw Warren Moon play football.

You know, the one in the Hall of Fame.

[King Taharqa]

Why is this news?? I have told ya'll this since January. ;)

Cam was definetly stereotyped coming out of college in some ways but I think people wanted to label him a running qb because of how effective he was running and not necessarily his race.

But that is why I hate when people try to put players in a box. He didn't have to be one or the other. He could be a great runner and a great passer.

Good point, if Tom Brady and Peyton Manning had the ability to run like Cam, no one would try to portray it as all they could do. But since they dont and cant, people act like a QB that can run is automatically one dimensional or isnt intelligent. Ive always said its about keeping certain QBs (pocket passers with limited athletic ability) and their style on a pedestal and asking others to constantly prove themselves and put a qualifier on their accomplishments. The latter is almost a rite of passage for black QBs that come into this league. There's not one that was highly rated that hasnt had that happen to them. This is called "racial bias", and this is the part of the game that needs to get cleaned up.

[Originalman]

I am guessing you never saw Warren Moon play football.

You know, the one in the Hall of Fame.

Well said........you can also add Culpepper to the list he was one of the most accurate passers in the history of college football. He broke Steve Youngs record for accuracy in the season (College) and set the all time single season record.

His first year as a starter he threw 33 TDs and before people mention he had Moss. The season when Duante threw for 4,700 yards and 39 TDs. Moss was hurt for most of the season with a hamstring and couldn't go deep.

You can also throw Mcnair in there later in his career. Sadly he never was allowed to throw earlier in his career until Eddie George was used up then the fool Fisher decided to let Steve throw to save Fisher's ass and his team. The rest is history he goes on to become CO-MVP and finally was able to show that he could pass in the Pros as he did at Alcorn St.

[Tom]

I forget who, but a few years ago some team brought in a pro baseball player just to teach their quarterback how to slide.

Maybe we should go that route :lol:

The Falcons brought in Braves coach (and former player) Terry Pendelton to help Vick learn to slide.

[Originalman]

Good point, if Tom Brady and Peyton Manning had the ability to run like Cam, no one would try to portray it as all they could do. But since they dont and cant, people act like a QB that can run is automatically one dimensional or isnt intelligent. Ive always said its about keeping certain QBs (pocket passers with limited athletic ability) and their style on a pedestal and asking others to constantly prove themselves and put a qualifier on their accomplishments. The latter is almost a rite of passage for black QBs that come into this league. There's not one that was highly rated that hasnt had that happen to them. This is called "racial bias", and this is the part of the game that needs to get cleaned up.

Great comments, it is a right to passage as you said. IMO it is best that QBs such as Cam are drafted later in the draft (as Culpepper and Josh Freeman were). This allows them to go under the radar and to a degree avoid the hate and hostility from the media and some fans. It seems as though the hate and anger goes to a whole new level when guys like Cam are drafted 1st overall or the 1st QB taken in the draft.

But it is hard to deny the racial aspect when dealing with black QBs. The same racial overtone questions are asked every time there is a great black QB prospect. You hear it from the media and some fans on the internet. The questions about how they will score on the wonderlic (I mean we had folks taking bets on the internet that Cam would score less than a 15 on the test), whether they can learn a pro offense (weren’t Culpepper, Moon, Mcnabb and Mcnair able to learn a pro offense so why can’t these guys), whether they have the work ethic, how they would make a better RB, WR or TE then a QB. I mean I could go on and on with this nonsense. It’s the same old mess no matter how successful the QB was in college. No matter how many yards they threw for or how high their completion %. No matter how hard they worked or whether they organized workouts with their college teammates. These questions are always asked and the negative assumptions are always considered true.

Oh well King it is what it is and I argue that it may even get worse in the coming years. Due to the fact there has been a gradual increase in QBs like Cam in the college game and those guys are playing for big programs. Add to the fact that coaches seem to have finally begun to understand how to use these guys. So there will be a constant flow of these guys entering the draft. I guess ESPN and Nawrocki will be very happy since they will have a chance to character assassinate more QBs in the coming years and try and ruin their draft stock all while selling magazines and getting website hits due to hate.

[Originalman]

The Falcons brought in Braves coach (and former player) Terry Pendelton to help Vick learn to slide.

You are right they sure did.

[footballisasport]

From the site: Strickly Panthers - Running commentary

Well, since he was pretty much molded into the J. Russel, V. Yong image by our talking heads as soon as he entered the draft, people were going to be quick to label him a run first QB despite what those around him said...

Interestingly enough, I was watching the Stanford vs. USC game last night, where USC should have won IMO, and two things stuck out at me about Luck; he was a tuck and run first QB and he rarely throws the ball pass 20 yrd....But I will be honest, I tuned into the game while they were in the second half so he could have been slinging the ball in the first half.

[FugginPoo]

He's already everything Vick has strived to become.

[footballisasport]

Great comments, it is a right to passage as you said. IMO it is best that QBs such as Cam are drafted later in the draft (as Culpepper and Josh Freeman were). This allows them to go under the radar and to a degree avoid the hate and hostility from the media and some fans. It seems as though the hate and anger goes to a whole new level when guys like Cam are drafted 1st overall or the 1st QB taken in the draft.

IMO, QBs like Cam should be given a fair chance like the Lucks of the QB world. Why are there always the same dumb questions when it comes to Cam type but automatic acceptance when it comes to the Luck type? It's called lazy journalism and a society that is still quick to judge and accept simply because.

Bet u dollars to donuts if Cam was playing like Blaine, no one would be demanding the team to step up to help him or continually making the excuse that he didn't have OTA nor training camp because they would quickly point to the performance of Andy and Christian. Especially since he went off the board higher than those two.