Come to a realization: this franchise is just too young

[Fireball77]

Who are we talking about again?

We're talking about a guy who helped drive the Cowboys up to a talent level to where they won 3 superbowls in 4 years. WITH 2 different head coaches (even though he definitely should've kept Jimmy Johnson)

We're talking about a guy who pulled off the Herschel Walker trade in 89. A trade that gave them a pick that eventually landed Emmitt Smith.

He was never a good football owner?

I think his players love him, but that isn't the sine qua non of good football ownership to me. Neither is making one good/great trade. Or letting his overweening ego be the thing behind a lot of his decisions instead of what is good for his team. He has a right to do whatever he wants as an owner, including dip**** things like sitting in the draft room and letting tv cameras capture their draft rankings board for all to see. He's made more moves like that which reek of jock sniffing/star "effer" idiocy than good moves, IMO.

That's a usual misconception about that Trade, it was not done by Johnson. In fact, if you go back and read the story about the trade. Even Johnson himself in his interview after the trade praised the move by Jones. Jones stayed up for 48 hours straight to complete that trade. His best move ever, since then he's made some questionable moves but that trade was his and was brilliant. Lynn I agree was stupid for even considering that trade much less making it.

And I look at that one as a blind squirrel/nut thing in view of his overall ownership.

[carpanfan96]

If you want to go further into AdAYPA then I can as it's the biggest barometer in QB success and if you go by that then there were only 3 QB's better then Delhomme last season. It's largely used as a tool to see which QB's are the most successful and it is also a good indication of which teams were overall successful as well.

[carpanfan96]

I think his players love him, but that isn't the sine qua non of good football ownership to me. Neither is making one good/great trade. Or letting his overweening ego be the thing behind a lot of his decisions instead of what is good for his team. He has a right to do whatever he wants as an owner, including dip**** things like sitting in the draft room and letting tv cameras capture their draft rankings board for all to see. He's made more moves like that which reek of jock sniffing/star "effer" idiocy than good moves, IMO.

And I look at that one as a blind squirrel/nut thing in view of his overall ownership.

Oh I agree he was largely lucky in that trade that it even happened. It did however lead to his team winning some SB's. Once again though I think he's just an average to below average GM and he should give up the job to someone else. As an owner he's a little too erratic IMO.

[Mr. Scot]

That's a usual misconception about that Trade, it was not done by Johnson. In fact, if you go back and read the story about the trade. Even Johnson himself in his interview after the trade praised the move by Jones. Jones stayed up for 48 hours straight to complete that trade. His best move ever, since then he's made some questionable moves but that trade was his and was brilliant. Lynn I agree was stupid for even considering that trade much less making it.

Actually I did look it up. Per info from the book "Greatest Team Ever" by Norm Hitzges, it was Johnson who came up with the idea and made the trade with Jones along for the ride. Johnson likely gave plenty of credit to Jones though seeing as they were buddy buddy during that time.

Honestly, the real credit probably should go to Mike Lynn.

(kind of like the credit for the Chicago Fire going to mrs. O'Leary's cow)

[Fireball77]

Same with the whole Ditka trade with Ricky Williams. It was more Ditka being nutty than anything else.

[carpanfan96]

Actually I did look it up. Per info from the book "Greatest Team Ever" by Norm Hitzges, it was Johnson who came up with the idea and made the trade with Jones along for the ride. Johnson likely gave plenty of credit to Jones though seeing as they were buddy buddy during that time.

Honestly, the real credit probably should go to Mike Lynn.

(kind of like the credit for the Chicago Fire going to mrs. O'Leary's cow)

Same with the whole Ditka trade with Ricky Williams. It was more Ditka being nutty than anything else.

You have to give credit where credit is due. lol and in this case it's not a good kind of credit...

[Ccat]

jerry jones cumulative analysis....

20 seasons as owner. 13 of them @ .500 or better. 11 of them, playoff seasons, 3 of them, superbowl seasons.

Recently Dallas hasn't been known as an organization of elite repute, but then again, teams have their peaks and valleys. I personally can't stand Jones, he's annoying, but in his defense, he has turned that franchise around, and he had been running it extremely well in the early/mid 90s. So I don't know where this is coming from that Jones has been a horrible owner for the Cowboys.

Wait...what happened to not looking in the rear view mirror. That sounds like what that statement is. Fact is, I would much rather be the Panthers than the Cowboys right now. We don't have all the damn drama that they have and we have had more recent success. The Cowboys haven't won a playoff game in ages.

In 7 years, they have yet to prove me, and the rest of the critics, that I'm wrong. Fox's jewelry box is still empty.

General situation in the NFL: 34 year old QB, off a season-ending/possibly career ending injury, hurls 5 picks and adds a fumble on top to boot, and at that point, also had his share of blunders of games to his credit earlier on. What do you think an NFL organization would do, most of the time?

It's not just my opinion, it's common sense.

Ok...Jerry Jones hasnt done anything the past 7 years either which makes me question why you were making that earlier comparison even more. Also, Jake had proven to come back strong from his surgery and showed that his elbow wasn't causing him problems. Also, I think most SMART franchises would have done the same thing we have done. Jake has proven he can be a winner and he's our best option right now. So no...it's not common sense

[frash.exe]

Wait...what happened to not looking in the rear view mirror. That sounds like what that statement is. Fact is, I would much rather be the Panthers than the Cowboys right now. We don't have all the damn drama that they have and we have had more recent success. The Cowboys haven't won a playoff game in ages.

Ok...Jerry Jones hasnt done anything the past 7 years either which makes me question why you were making that earlier comparison even more. Also, Jake had proven to come back strong from his surgery and showed that his elbow wasn't causing him problems. Also, I think most SMART franchises would have done the same thing we have done. Jake has proven he can be a winner and he's our best option right now. So no...it's not common sense

Well, if you read back at the posts you see I brought up points in opposition to people saying he was NEVER a good owner, which I have kind of a hard time understanding.

Extending a 34 y/o QB with questionable performance and with no sure plan for the future? You know who else have been "proven" winners?

Brett Favre

Brad Johnson

Matt Hasselbeck

Yea, those guys also should really continue starting in this league based on your logic, since they all pose winning records. Hence, my rear view analysis. You are looking into the rear view mirror right now, saying somebody should start just because they have a past winning record and that trumps all other factors.

[Fireball77]

I think Hass doesn't belong in the same category with Favre and Johnson...he belongs in the category with Jake. Has had some injury issues, the team needs to start planning for the future...but still capable of being an effective starter for a few more years.

[bigskypanthersguy]

...and the team in Carolina looks much better than the team in Montana

You leave the Billings Outlaws out of this, dammit! http://www.billingsoutlaws.com/

It's not their fault their logo looks like a redneck Shadow ripof--wait.

[frash.exe]

Finally, my original point of "Go talk to fans of some terrible franchises", you've got it dead wrong. Look at the Steelers. In 2004 they lost the AFC Championship game to the Pats. But I'll lay good money there were plenty of people who were saying "Hey at least it aint last year" when they went 6-10. Or the Pats. In 2000 they went 5-11, and I'm sure there were plenty of peole who were fine with seeing those numbers reversed last season even without a playoff berth especially without the star QB.

.

You're gonna call me wrong and the only way you can prove it is this short-sighted illusion of a former 4 time championship winning team's hardcore fanbase dismissing the heartbreak of an AFC championship loss who, also around that time, suffered many many other heartbreaking playoff losses, by kindly pointing out 6-10 in 2003? And the Pats example is even worse. After winning 3 superbowls in 7 seasons they're going to remember 5-11 in 2000 after losing a 4th attempt at a superbowl, 7 years later?

Not every fanbase uses 1-15 or any starting poor record as an excuse every time this team fails to accomplish something like the Panthers' do. Most fans of other teams root for their team to win the superbowl and nothing less, not just be decent and avoid 1-15.

I've had my fill of excuses. Seems like other people are just eager to eat em up.

[frash.exe]

Isn't this kind of contradictory to your original points?

Also, why should we be impressed by the past success of the Cowboys if they haven't made the playoffs recently? Sure the reason they haven't is because they dropped Johnson, but we dropped Seifert and have had only two seasons under .500, and three of those have been playoff berths. If we're respecting the past of the Cowboys and using it to justify the present doldrums their franchise is in, can we not apply this same thinking to our own franchise?

Part of the reason we hired Seifert in the first place was those 2 superbowl championship wins in his resume probably looked mighty good to the Panthers' brass. Yet another example of looking in the rear view to make decisions. It didn't work for us then.

Also, considering recent history, it's kind of hypocritical to consider 3 straight winning seasons in a row complete doldrums (not that I would be satisfied with it anyway either if I was a 'Boys fan, yuk, i said "I" and "'Boys fan" in the same sentence) for one team when we've gone through 8-8, 7-9, and 12-4, and got our ass kicked worse in the playoffs while Dallas actually competed with the Giants for 4 quarters, and it's just satisfying.

[Ccat]

Well, if you read back at the posts you see I brought up points in opposition to people saying he was NEVER a good owner, which I have kind of a hard time understanding.

Extending a 34 y/o QB with questionable performance and with no sure plan for the future? You know who else have been "proven" winners?

Brett Favre

Brad Johnson

Matt Hasselbeck

Yea, those guys also should really continue starting in this league based on your logic, since they all pose winning records. Hence, my rear view analysis. You are looking into the rear view mirror right now, saying somebody should start just because they have a past winning record and that trumps all other factors.

Obviously I'm not the only one who can't read previous posts. Maybe you should have noticed that I didn't say he should start just because he had a winning record but because he is our best option at this point.

[frash.exe]

Obviously I'm not the only one who can't read previous posts. Maybe you should have noticed that I didn't say he should start just because he had a winning record but because he is our best option at this point.

Jake has proven he can be a winner and he's our best option right now

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