Come to a realization: this franchise is just too young

[X-Clown]

jerry jones cumulative analysis....

20 seasons as owner. 13 of them @ .500 or better. 11 of them, playoff seasons, 3 of them, superbowl seasons. .

So you're criticizing Panther fans for clinging to success from 2003 and 2005, and saying that we should demand success right now yet are championing Jerry Jones' franchise who hasn't won a single playoff game in 13 years, had a majority of success under a completely different regime, and clearly has gotten a lot worse ever since Bill Parcells essentially rebuilt that franchise? The same owner that most REAL Cowboy fans (excluding the majority who are front running bandwagon style) wish would go away? And now .500 or better is a barometer of success?

[Mr. Scot]

I agree that a team shouldn't get complacent and shouldn't be happy to tolerate playing like ass in a game because they won the SB the year before...I just think that there are games when all teams look like ass, SB winner or not, and to evaluate personnel based on a couple games isn't the way I would go about it.

I don't think the Giants made a big overhaul in personnel after the Cats absolutely debacled them (thank you Emmitt) in the 2005 playoffs. I bet their fans were pretty pissed abut that, but they turned out to be right no to do anything big.

Point being, sometimes trends fans see are valid sometimes they aren't...but the bottom line is that we as fans don't have the access to all the same data that FOs and coaching staffs do to make their decisions (such as game film) so we are working from a position of weakness knowledge wise.

Pretty much.

Crediting team changes and successes to fans is a stretch Mister Fantastic couldn't make :nonod:

Does anybody really believe that John Fox and Marty Hurney weigh fan opinion into their decision process? Knowing that Mike Trgovac was set to be extended this offseason before there was a snag in the negotiations, the notion seems highly unlikely.

And as I've said before, if they actually did, I'd be highly disappointed.

[panthers55]

Fox may be slow to act but he does with good results. He fixed the offense and is now going to fix the defense. He has a core of young players and has made this team significantly better than when he came here. Where everyone kept complaining that the window was closing the past few years, I see it opening wide. We have the chance to be a perennial power in the NFC South. Things are better than they have ever been in our franchise IMHO. And Fox and Hurney get the credit.

[Snake]

Fox may be slow to act but he does with good results. He fixed the offense and is now going to fix the defense. He has a core of young players and has made this team significantly better than when he came here. Where everyone kept complaining that the window was closing the past few years, I see it opening wide. We have the chance to be a perennial power in the NFC South. Things are better than they have ever been in our franchise IMHO. And Fox and Hurney get the credit.

Agreed.

[ItsNotGonnaBeAlright]

then again, teams have their peaks and valleys

Isn't this kind of contradictory to your original points?

Also, why should we be impressed by the past success of the Cowboys if they haven't made the playoffs recently? Sure the reason they haven't is because they dropped Johnson, but we dropped Seifert and have had only two seasons under .500, and three of those have been playoff berths. If we're respecting the past of the Cowboys and using it to justify the present doldrums their franchise is in, can we not apply this same thinking to our own franchise?

Finally, my original point of "Go talk to fans of some terrible franchises", you've got it dead wrong. Look at the Steelers. In 2004 they lost the AFC Championship game to the Pats. But I'll lay good money there were plenty of people who were saying "Hey at least it aint last year" when they went 6-10. Or the Pats. In 2000 they went 5-11, and I'm sure there were plenty of peole who were fine with seeing those numbers reversed last season even without a playoff berth especially without the star QB.

Yes, teams have their peaks and valleys, and fortunately for us, we've recently had a good number of peaks and no really terrible valleys.

At any rate, Carolina is a damn sight better than the team in Montana.

[jbernar6]

Come to a realization: It's just football.

[rayzor]

I kept forgetting to field this one. It was the last time we scored in the game. With 2 minutes on the clock we had already gone into handoff mode. But here's the deal. There was a better chance of the Panthers going 3 and out there on that drive, and with an 8 point lead it was a one score game to tie it for TB, the way Garcia's been a pain in the ass for us he could've just as easily marched his offense down the field again, ...he threw all over our secondary the entire night, than there was a chance of the Bucs scoring twice in a 2 minute span, onside kick recovery and all after we dropped another 7 points on them.

So despite Fox's nail-biting on the sidelines there's no concrete proven plan for scoring two touchdowns in the last two minutes of the game to upset your team. DeAngelo's late run sealed the game better than any slide he could've made after passing that first down marker.

dropping down at the 1 yardline is what fox probably would rather have happened instead of after the 1st down marker.

2 minutes could have been eaten off the clock with ease. it isn't a plan to score twice in 2 minutes i would be afraid of. it is some team pulling a miracle comeback on MNF which has happened on more than one occasion.

the chances of them coming back were incredibly slim but it still allowed for a sliver of possibility which, sometimes, is just enough.

there are plenty of examples of Fox's play calling being conservative to a fault but I think it was more justified in that instance than others.

[frash.exe]

So you're criticizing Panther fans for clinging to success from 2003 and 2005, and saying that we should demand success right now yet are championing Jerry Jones' franchise who hasn't won a single playoff game in 13 years, had a majority of success under a completely different regime, and clearly has gotten a lot worse ever since Bill Parcells essentially rebuilt that franchise? The same owner that most REAL Cowboy fans (excluding the majority who are front running bandwagon style) wish would go away? And now .500 or better is a barometer of success?

No.

Scot said Jerry Jones wasn't a wise football owner. I was just kindly pointing it out.

[X-Clown]

No.

Scot said Jerry Jones wasn't a wise football owner. I was just kindly pointing it out.

Present day Jerry Jones is Al Davis lite.

[frash.exe]

Present day Jerry Jones is Al Davis lite.

Whoa.

Al Davis is in a league all his own. No one comes close. He's hired/fired like 5 or 6 head coaches in the last 7 years.

Jones is not nearly as bad as Davis.

[Fireball77]

Jones was NEVER a good owner football knowledge wise. Al Davis, before he was senile, actually was a pretty successful GM and HC.

[frash.exe]

Jones was NEVER a good owner football knowledge wise. Al Davis, before he was senile, actually was a pretty successful GM and HC.

Who are we talking about again?

We're talking about a guy who helped drive the Cowboys up to a talent level to where they won 3 superbowls in 4 years. WITH 2 different head coaches (even though he definitely should've kept Jimmy Johnson)

We're talking about a guy who pulled off the Herschel Walker trade in 89. A trade that gave them a pick that eventually landed Emmitt Smith.

He was never a good football owner?

[Mr. Scot]

Who are we talking about again?

We're talking about a guy who helped drive the Cowboys up to a talent level to where they won 3 superbowls in 4 years. WITH 2 different head coaches (even though he definitely should've kept Jimmy Johnson)

We're talking about a guy who pulled off the Herschel Walker trade in 89. A trade that gave them a pick that eventually landed Emmitt Smith.

He was never a good football owner?

Jimmy Johnson was the engine behind the Herschel Walker trade, not Jerry Jones. Johnson and Vikings GM Mike Lynn (who was an idiot to make the trade he did).

All Jones did while Johnson was there was provide the money, and given that there was no salary cap at that time, he could throw as much as he wanted around. Forced to operate under a salary cap and minus Jimmy Johnson, Jones has been a Cowboy fans worst nightmare.

[carpanfan96]

Jimmy Johnson was the engine behind the Herschel Walker trade, not Jerry Jones. Johnson and Vikings GM Mike Lynn (who was an idiot to make the trade he did).

All Jones did while Johnson was there was provide the money, and given that there was no salary cap at that time, he could throw as much as he wanted around. Forced to operate under a salary cap and minus Jimmy Johnson, Jones has been a Cowboy fans worst nightmare.

That's a usual misconception about that Trade, it was not done by Johnson. In fact, if you go back and read the story about the trade. Even Johnson himself in his interview after the trade praised the move by Jones. Jones stayed up for 48 hours straight to complete that trade. His best move ever, since then he's made some questionable moves but that trade was his and was brilliant. Lynn I agree was stupid for even considering that trade much less making it.