Come to a realization: this franchise is just too young

[Fireball77]

I bet when the Patriots lost the Superbowl last year, fans weren't running around all over the place saying, "well at least we're not 1-15 like we were in 1990."

There was major disgust at the way that game turned out. There were some who were proud of 16-0 either way. I will say this, after game 1 of last year, quite a few thought the season was over. Most of them were proud of 11-5 even without the playoffs due to what they overcame to get there.

I see what you are saying about expectations, and I agree they should be to contend every year, but honestly the Cats under Fox have been in the playoff hunt every single year under him come week 17 except 2002 and 2007. It isn't elite, but it isn't bad either. I happen to think that making the transition from coordinator to HC is very difficult and that he is still learning big time. In order to remain encouraged, I just want to see continued growth into his role, and yes I think I have seen some progress with how he handles things (such as making coaching changes and getting rid of more vets lately). Mainly, if the players still buy into him, that is a huge deal in my book. It's possible that Pep and Jenks didn't or don't but I am not sure exactly. Either way, a HC isn't going to make everyone happy.

And geebus...I can't believe I forgot to mention how much that "3-1 in each quarter" thing pisses me off...thanks for reminding me! I realize that it is said in the press and it may not be the actual feeling....but...when a HC talks to the press, they are also talking to their football team and it is not the way I want them to think....even in the back of their mind. I much prefer the philosophy of "we are going to focus on THIS GAME..and going 1-0 THIS week".

[Ccat]

That's a lot of writing to say what could have been said in a single sentence.

That's really all it boils down to.

"Franchise age" is honestly something you can factor in when you're discussing how active a fanbase is. When evaluating a team, it's largely an illusion because front offices change fairly often. The Atlanta Falcons are an old franchise, but last year was their first under the leadership of head coach Mike Smith and GM Tom Dimitroff. Given that there's pretty much little to no carryover in philosophy from prior leaders Rich McKay and Jim Mora/Bobby Petrino, this edition of the Falcon franchise is essentially one year old.

Likewise, people suggested that the Panthers are skittish about drafting first round QBs because of Kerry Collins, but the people in charge right now weren't in leadership when Collins was drafted. That decision was made by guys like Dom Anile, Bill Polian and Dom Capers. Marty Hurney didn't arrive until 98, and even then only as a cap guy. Since Hurney's ascension, we've replaced the director of college scouting with good result. New braintrust essentially equals a new start.

I'd add that the suggestion that the team is too vanilla to win it all would have to be considered very ill-timed, given that it comes less than two months after a team that embodies the very philosophy this team wants to emulate (run-first, pass as a complimentary threat, play tough defense, play it safe in free agency) beat a team with the kind of high-flying, pass heavy profile that's all the rage these days. Ball control, defensive teams can win in today's NFL, and anyone who thinks it isn't possible probably wasn't watching this year's Super Bowl.

And in the end, your conclusion is that maybe if the fanbase was more active and vocal, the team would listen more to us? Good Lord, I hope not! A professional coach or GM taking fan opinions into account in their decision making? That notion would be insane even if the fanbase was unanimous in their ideas.

But they aren't...

So let's say you end up with one vocal faction saying "fire Fox" and another vocal faction saying "keep Fox". Which group would you suggest ownership listen to? The one that's bigger? Great. A team run by a democracy of fans. That's guaranteed to be a winner

Sheesh.

There's plenty of things I don't agree with about the way the team is run, but I recognize that I'm just a fan and there's no reason the organization would, or should, take my opinions seriously. The day they actually do? That's when I'll start to worry.

I love you...no homo

[frash.exe]

just one more question, and it's not a dig at anybody, but I'll elaborate.

Do you think that proper fan conduct is to go about like, "Well, yea I could have my opinions and such but, let's not question anything for any reason no matter our stance and just go about cheering, less we be considered a lunatic fringe or a knee-jerk crowd."?

Do you think that is how Steelers fans conduct themselves? Or Giants fans? etc? Do you think your obligated as such to not voice your opinion?

[frash.exe]

You're just wrong Raging Bull, you're just wrong. I don't mean to think that or post that, but it's just true. People went 3-1 last year, we were ecstatic about it. We blow a first round buy second round playoff game and people want to gut the team, replace every player, the coach and the front office, get real...

We're still a pretty good team, deal with it...

Well, you know what, in this life, "pretty good" doesn't satisfy.

You can call it Yankee mentality or whatever you want and honestly I've never visited the South so I can't vouch but if I made it my goal just to be "pretty good" around where I live I wouldn't get poo in my life. Everything I've gotten I've had to scratch and claw to get. And you know what, those times I did go absolutely balls out it paid off big time.

I know it's kinda corny to apply aspects of "real life" into what we're talking about but it's true.

The day the fanbase uniformly starts demanding the best this football team can offer and nothing less, is the day we start really making progress. As a fan I don't expect anything less and you shouldn't either.

[carpanfan96]

just one more question, and it's not a dig at anybody, but I'll elaborate.

Do you think that proper fan conduct is to go about like, "Well, yea I could have my opinions and such but, let's not question anything for any reason no matter our stance and just go about cheering, less we be considered a lunatic fringe or a knee-jerk crowd."?

Do you think that is how Steelers fans conduct themselves? Or Giants fans? etc? Do you think your obligated as such to not voice your opinion?

Who here isn't Voicing their opinion??? Were all on the Huddle aren't we. I can see what you mean though about fans in general who aren't as say hardcore as most of the folk that are on here. Casual fans of football, who bought PSL's just to say they have them. Only really support the team when it's winning and such. I don't think you'll find many if any of those type of fans here on the huddle though.

[Fireball77]

No...all fanbases have their "lunatic fringe"...lol..J/K.

I think people have the right to question and discuss whatever they want to. I just think that at a certain point, that can be frustrating thing to concentrate on when it isn't going to change. I like to try to concentrate on enjoying and/or critiquing each game or move as they happen...but then I don't disagree THAT MUCH with what the franchise does most of the time. If I was a Colts fan, I would probably be screaming bloody murder about their philosophy of building around the offense. So I see your point.

For example, my mom is a huge Steelers fan and I am constantly "talking her off the ledge" about her frustrations with the fact that they don't sign big name FAs. And they let people go instead of overpaying them (I agree with doing both those things so it doesn't make it any easier to deal with). I told her for heavens sake, mom they just won the SB...can't you ENJOY it for a couple months at least?!?!?!?

[Ccat]

The day the fanbase uniformly starts demanding the best this football team can offer and nothing less, is the day we start really making progress. As a fan I don't expect anything less and you shouldn't either.

I think the organization is going to try to put the best team they think they can out on the field whether or not we all try to criticize everything they do. All fans have different opinions on different subjects. Some think Delhomme needs to go, others think he is our best option. The organization shouldn't make decisions "because the fans say so." If they did, I would stop watching because there are way too many fans out there that don't know squat about what they are saying. I trust that the coaches have pretty good judgement on what they need to do to win. I don't believe one bit that John Fox isn't trying to field the best possible team that he can.

[frash.exe]

Something to further my point of "looking through the rear view" as a philosophy.

http://forum.belmont.edu/cornwall/archives/003503.html

First, the income statement, balance sheet and cash flow statement are all based on historic data. They tell you where you have been, but not necessarily where you are headed. A professor from the east coast tells of an exercise he uses to bring this point home. He takes his students to a big open parking lot, where an old car sits with all of its windows blackened out with paper except the rear window.

He sets up a simple course to follow with orange cones. The trick is this. His students must navigate the orange cones driving forward by looking only through their rearview mirror. The cars careen all over the lot as the students try to master this almost impossible task.

The moral of this lesson is to illustrate the challenge of trying to go forward while only able to look in the past.

too bad a lot of Panther fans prefer looking in the past.

[frash.exe]

For example, my mom is a huge Steelers fan and I am constantly "talking her off the ledge" about her frustrations with the fact that they don't sign big name FAs. And they let people go instead of overpaying them (I agree with doing both those things so it doesn't make it any easier to deal with). I told her for heavens sake, mom they just won the SB...can't you ENJOY it for a couple months at least?!?!?!?

I can relate.

I watched the Giants/Redskins season opener with my cousin. ....BIG Giants fan. Anyway, for a good part of the game they were struggling with Washington and he got pissed and said something going along the lines of "alright, even if we won the superbowl last year lets not tolerate any bullcrap" ...something like that.

But that's the whole organization's identity. They weren't gonna get caught up in a post superbowl hangover. That's where I'd like us to be.

[panthers55]

I don't know why folks feel offended by being called the lunatic fringe. First of all we are talking football and posting in March. That is a little crazy. Secondly most of us are lunatics about football. And isn't fan short for fanatic.

Lets face it, we are the lunatic fringe.

Goes out to find the Red Rider song on Youtube to post here!!!

[rayzor]

I don't know why folks feel offended by being called the lunatic fringe. First of all we are talking football and posting in March. That is a little crazy. Secondly most of us are lunatics about football. And isn't fan short for fanatic.

Lets face it, we are the lunatic fringe.

Goes out to find the Red Rider song on Youtube to post here!!!

you mean this one?

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1987446&postcount=24

We can hear you coming

[frash.exe]

I don't know why folks feel offended by being called the lunatic fringe. First of all we are talking football and posting in March. That is a little crazy. Secondly most of us are lunatics about football. And isn't fan short for fanatic.

Lets face it, we are the lunatic fringe.

Goes out to find the Red Rider song on Youtube to post here!!!

surely though you can't deny he said it in a condescending manner.

I'm not mad. Personally, I think Gantt made a complete ass of himself to the readers who give him feedback, and whether he agrees with them or not, readership.

[Mr. Scot]

The day the fanbase uniformly starts demanding the best this football team can offer and nothing less, is the day we start really making progress. As a fan I don't expect anything less and you shouldn't either.

And how exactly do you plan to get a fanbase "uniformly demanding the best" when this forum, which realistically only represents a quite small portion of the fanbase, can't even agree on a unified idea of what's best for the team?

Let's be real here. Discussion on this forum is just discussion for our sake. Nobody in actual decision making gives a rodent's rump if a bunch of fans are up in arms about a particular player, coach, or whatever. And why should they? We're fans.

I've disagreed with a load of things that this organization has done, but at no point have I ever had the illusion that my opinion mattered or ought to matter.

[panthers55]

surely though you can't deny he said it in a condescending manner.

I'm not mad. Personally, I think Gantt made a complete ass of himself to the readers who give him feedback, and whether he agrees with them or not, readership.

I agree that it was probably over the top as many people feel very negatively about Jake right now. Still I would agree with his point that folks who want to get rid of Jake because of a very poor playoff appearance are overreacting and failing to take a number of circumstances into account including, for example that in 10 games last year Jake had no interceptions. He obviously likes Jake which is easy to do. I suspect the better you know Jake, the harder it is to dislike him. Gantt seems more protective than condescending to me.

But what do I know?