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Come to a realization: this franchise is just too young


frash.exe

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Are we too young for success? Perhaps the better question is have we learned enough and matured enough to be consistently successful. And the answer to that in my opinion is that we are moving in the right direction. Are we conservative as a franchise? Not historically. We have a history of gambling. In the 90s we gambled a number of times with high priced free agents using a win now philosophy. We gambled 2 first rounders on Gilbert. As recently as 4 or 5 years ago we made a big free agency splash with Lucas, Hartwig and Wahle. Have these gambles paid off? Most have not which is why we have largely abandoned this in favor of building through the draft and only relying on primarily low level free agents instead of high profile guys. Even last year we gambled our 1st rounder this year on a guy who played 2 years in college and was largely considered somewhat of a project.

Are we conservative when we hire coaches? Dom Capers was a risk with no head coaching experience. When that didn't work we went to the tried and true method of hiring a guy with Super Bowl experience. After that miserable experiment we went out on a limb again with Fox who again had no head coach experience. Conservative? Not hardly.

What about out coaches under Fox? We went with tried and true with Henning but replaced him with a nobody in Davidson. We started out with a relative nobody in Jack Del Rio, followed with even a lesser know guy in Trgovac and now have an established guy in Meeks. Hardly a conservative pattern.

Is Fox conservative? yes and no. He is conservative if establishing a run game, stopping the run, and winning on defense is conservative. Seems it works for Pittsburgh.

Is Fox too conservative because he kept Trgovac too long. If you remember that in 2005 and 2006 we had a top 10 defense, then he really only kept him for 2 years after that. A poor year in 2007 when our offense was terrible and in 2008 where they were good early and faded late. Look I am a Trgo hater so I am glad he is gone but I could see how Fox might believe he was salvagable. I don't think he could have justified firing him earlier and could have made a case to keep him. Too loyal and conservative? Not really.

I submit instead that we are an evolving learning franchise who is trying to find a winning formula and establish consistency. That requires consistent players, consistent philosophy and consistent coaching. So a premium is placed on keeping things intact, locking up players long term, building through the draft and establishing consistency. With our draft team in place, a young core of players, and consistency with out head coach we are finally heqded in the right direction.

Are we becoming more conservative as a franchise. I surely hope so. Being conservative means you find a winning formula and you stick with it. You don't become enamored with fads and changing philosophies but use what works consistently. It means you develop a philosophy and stick with it looking for long-term gain instead of short-term ones.

Does it frustrate fans when it doesn't pay off right away? Of course. Does it mean that you might stick with something longer than absolutely necessary? Sometimes. But in the end i can't think of any football franchise who has had more success than we have in the span of 14 years. Can you?

Neither Jacksonville or Houston would be called conservative. Have they won a Superbowl? How many teams have never won a Superbowl? Should we chuck it all and start over? Or should we continue to learn and grow as a franchise by keeping things consistent. After all this is Hurney's first gig as a GM. it is Fox's first gig as a HC. I suspect that with each failure and trial they learn a lot more than they do when things go right. Will Fox learn not to hold onto players too long? I expect he will if he hasn't already.

My perspective is that instead of looking at what is wrong and complaining, I see the road we have traveled and the succeses and failures we have had along the way. Most of all I see how we are evolving as a franchise as we learn and develop. That gives me optimism for the future and excitement for the upcoming season. I think that Fox and Hurney are coming into their own and finally hitting on what I hope will be a winning formula for now and the future.

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That's a lot of writing to say what could have been said in a single sentence.

That's really all it boils down to.

actually, this was closer to the truth...

I question the franchise's competence and their commitment to winning because they aren't making the moves that time and time again have been proven to create winning, consistent teams.

I don't have any direct personal preference. IF the NFL was a game only the most conservative teams were the most consistent and successful, Fox's business model would be prime and the most desired. You notice the best teams in the league are ones that do take risks, but calculated and timely ones.

You seem to sum up my entire thought process into me just being pissed off because they don't make the moves I think they should make. I don't expect them to listen to me, I'm rather making an observation based on everything recent history has told us.

I'd add that the suggestion that the team is too vanilla to win it all would have to be considered very ill-timed, given that it comes less than two months after a team that embodies the very philosophy this team wants to emulate (run-first, pass as a complimentary threat, play tough defense, play it safe in free agency) beat a team with the kind of high-flying, pass heavy profile that's all the rage these days. Ball control, defensive teams can win in today's NFL, and anyone who thinks it isn't possible probably wasn't watching this year's Super Bowl.

Pittsburgh had that philosophy, but they couldn't impose it well enough on anybody. Roethlisberger led that offense for the most part, he wasn't complementing his running game. And Arizona came within about 3 minutes to winning their superbowl with "pass-happy" offense. They got much farther than "physical" running teams like Tennessee and ourselves.

No matter what you say you can't deny the conservative tag applies to Fox, and I'm not talking about conservative in a sense of whether you run till daylight or you're throwing it west coast. I mean we're talking about a guy who got in DeAngelo Williams' ear after he ran for a touchdown, and who sets a goal to lose once every four games in the regular season. Who else do you know that has those kind of quirks? And if you do, were they any successful, and were they around recent enough to be considered relevant?

And in the end, your conclusion is that maybe if the fanbase was more active and vocal, the team would listen more to us? Good Lord, I hope not! A professional coach or GM taking fan opinions into account in their decision making? That notion would be insane even if the fanbase was unanimous in their ideas.

But they aren't...

So let's say you end up with one vocal faction saying "fire Fox" and another vocal faction saying "keep Fox". Which group would you suggest ownership listen to? The one that's bigger? Great. A team run by a democracy of fans. That's guaranteed to be a winner :rolleyes:

You misinterpreted my point and I knew this was coming. Scot, I even elaborated specific scenarios shouldn't be taken seriously. But let me ask you this question:

Besides this message board, where do you see anybody criticizing various players in this organization like we do? Don't think people in the organization run into people like us every day, and if they do well it's not really casual to start a conversation about all the crap we talk about.

Fox never sees the kind of criticism some of other coaches do in larger markets, but he gets fussy whenever someone asks him a good question in a press conference.

All I'm saying is if we make our voices loud and clear it's Superbowl time, at the games, everywhere, it'll motivate them a little more to work that harder at whatever they're doing.

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Ok minus our QB situation, were really close to what Pitt is. They are a run first team and were still running the ball a lot even when they were down to the back up's back up. The offense is eerily similar if you compare the two. Yet they won the Superbowl and your in here complaining that our team isn't consistently winning.

Yet our record over the last 7 years is 63 - 49 with a winning percentage of .563, the club is 5-3 in the playoff's. we have 3 division championships in that time period and one conference championship.

Is our offense conservative, Yes and no.

A conservative offense would be a run first and dink and dunk pass offense, we don't do that. We run first and set up play action passing deep down the field. I don't see how you can call an offense that was in the top ten completely conservative. Yea we had a physical run first approach, but we threw the ball deep quite a bit.

Our defense was conservative and non aggressive, I think they've fixed that problem in hiring Meeks and implementing a Tampa 2 style defense.

Your comparing our team to a team that just got to the super bowl for the first time ever. Just because they run a pass first offense, That's not why they got to the super bowl. They got to the super bowl because there defense stepped up. Shut down two of the top three running teams down and forced a bunch of turnovers against everyone, Not just us. They got to the super Bowl because there run game stepped it up in the playoff's. Check the stats, they passed the ball a heck of a lot less in the playoff's compared to what they did in the regular season. They got more production from the run game and the defense. That's why Arizona got to the super bowl.

As for Fox and his 3-1 each quarter of the season, is 12-4 bad.............Having a goal of 12 - 4 is bad........... No it's not, your not realistically going to win every game you play, so having a goal of 12 - 4 for a season is a damn good goal to shoot for if you ask me.

As for having the goal of the super bowl, you don't think that's the teams goal???? That's what everyone is gunning for. That's everyone's goal, that's what every fan wants to see happen. Do you seriously think that the fans demanding a super bowl is going to magically make it happen, or that the team will work harder to achieve what is already it's goal?????

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No matter what you say you can't deny the conservative tag applies to Fox, and I'm not talking about conservative in a sense of whether you run till daylight or you're throwing it west coast. I mean we're talking about a guy who got in DeAngelo Williams' ear after he ran for a touchdown, and who sets a goal to lose once every four games in the regular season. Who else do you know that has those kind of quirks? And if you do, were they any successful, and were they around recent enough to be considered relevant?
I can see where you are coming from but I am not upset with Fox getting in Williams' ear about that touchdown. It wasn't the smartest thing to do considering how much time was on the clock. Fox was right and Williams knew it. It was good that Fox told him to play smarter. I have very little doubt that we would have scored anyway....more faith in that than in our defense stopping a miracle comeback.

About that 3 out of 4 gameplan....that has never ceased to piss me off. plan to win everything. Forget about realistic expectations...strive for perfection. You may not hit it but if you push yourself hard enough and expect it you are sure to get further than you have before.

That is what makes the Patriots the team that everyone wants to play for. That is what makes them multiple Superbowl champions. Fox accused the team of being soft when he arrived. He played hardball and went for the throat and he had the team mirror that. I want to see him do that again. I know he can.

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From the "Thank God Carolina has a franchise" crowd, if I may:

Carolina could finish 0-16 every year, never changing out a player at a single posistion until they reached the age of 40, and always drafting the bottom six prospects of any given draft class and I would still proudly wear the jerseys, attend home games, and believe every single sunday that they were going to win.

If you would like to discuss how incompetent or ineffective any portion of this team is, might I suggest talking to a Raiders fan or maybe a Lions fan, franchises that haven't been relevant almost the entire length of our organization's existence?

And as for the conservative nature of this team, we are of course in agreeance that trading a first round draft pick for a rather unproven offensive line starter was a pretty definative risk that I seem to remember had plenty of people scratching their heads, no? Let's face it, the offense was in desperate need of an overhaul and by all rights it got one and was successful. To discredit the work that was done and the risks that were taken last offseason because of the example of the previous seasons is nearly hypocritical with your complaint of "the team ignores what isn't working this year because it worked last year".

Just a few points I'd thought I would add to the mix. Fantastic posts by the way. While I don't think I win the word battle, I do seem to have a pair of the longest run-on sentances. Take that!

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I can see where you are coming from but I am not upset with Fox getting in Williams' ear about that touchdown. It wasn't the smartest thing to do considering how much time was on the clock. Fox was right and Williams knew it. It was good that Fox told him to play smarter. I have very little doubt that we would have scored anyway....more faith in that than in our defense stopping a miracle comeback.

About that 3 out of 4 gameplan....that has never ceased to piss me off. plan to win everything. Forget about realistic expectations...strive for perfection. You may not hit it but if you push yourself hard enough and expect it you are sure to get further than you have before.

That is what makes the Patriots the team that everyone wants to play for. That is what makes them multiple Superbowl champions. Fox accused the team of being soft when he arrived. He played hardball and went for the throat and he had the team mirror that. I want to see him do that again. I know he can.

I personally think that the team, yes, Fox included do plan to win every game. Just because he says winning 3 out of 4 is a good thing in a press conference does not mean that it is his goal to settle. I just don't believe that, but I understand that a lot of fans do because that helps them with their theories that Fox needs to be replaced, (not that I think that of you Rayzor, just that it is a prevailing reason to condemn him on here)...

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Alright, I sit here and I read everything you guys write but I have to say most of you are morons. Support the team don't complain because we're talking about extending Jake's contract or any other bullshit. So what if we don't have the money to sign some free agents. Oh god it is such a boring off season, quit crying you fags. We have every starter from last year except for Ken Lucas, Jake did great last year in my opinion, yeah I wanted to choke him during the playoff loss but why the hell were we not running more? John Fox is a great coach, Jake is a damn good quarterback and Julius Peppers is one of the best DE's in the league but most of you are fuging dumb. fuging babies. Jesus, I wouldn't want to play here either if I had such stupid fuging fans like you guys. fug this site and fug all you fuging duesh bags.

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No matter how great the power of a human being is, death spells cannot handle him. If a person has a good guardian angel, he will destroy the evil entity in battle. However, if it kills the guardian angel then the victim is helpless. In such a case, the victim dies only when he stops breathing. Call Or WhatsApp : +91-9352347033 E-mail : [email protected]
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The death spell for the person you want to take revenge on is one of the scariest and most powerful revenge spells. Only professional and experienced revenge witches can perform this spell and a person should not attempt it on their own. Also, it is a problematic spell, so only a powerful spell caster can cancel it or put it on hold until your mind is clear about it. Voodoo/Black Magic Death Spells 11 causes the death of the victim through some means. One way is by forcing the victim to commit suicide. Another way is when the victim dies in an accident. Otherwise, they may get caught in a robbery attempt and killed by the attackers. However, the spell will work in a magical way to accomplish the goal. Death Spells 21 curses not only harm the person but also his family members. This is one of the darkest spells because the person who brought you pain and suffering is destined to die. This spell works best for risk-taking individuals who are fearless and can try out new agendas of revenge magic. World Best Death Spell Caster In UAE World Best Death Spell Caster In Portugal World Best Death Spell Caster In Austria World Best Death Spell Caster In Ireland World Best Death Spell Caster In Australia World Best Death Spell Caster In USA World Best Death Spell Caster In Belgium World Best Death Spell Caster In Singapore World Best Death Spell Caster In UK World Best Death Spell Caster In Finland World Best Death Spell Caster In Iceland World Best Death Spell Caster In Qatar World Best Death Spell Caster In Saudi Arabia World Best Death Spell Caster In Denmark World Best Death Spell Caster In Luxembourg World Best Death Spell Caster In Canada World Best Death Spell Caster In Switzerland World Best Death Spell Caster In Norway World Best Death Spell Caster In New Zealand World Best Death Spell Caster In France World Best Death Spell Caster In Netherlands World Best Death Spell Caster In Italy World Best Death Spell Caster In Philippines World Best Death Spell Caster In Spain Death spells are a form of witchcraft/voodoo spells that are combined with very powerful magical power with the intention of destroying someone who comes in your way. It is very important that death spells should be performed only by the magician himself and not by an inexperienced person. Because a person who is not aware of it can have negative consequences and can get himself affected in the wrong way. Death spells are witchcraft/sorcery done for revenge. The witch casts a very powerful death spell, however you have to prove that the person you are going to punish deserves it. Death spells can be necessary when your back is against the wall, and witchcraft can be a powerful tool. It will also be necessary to cast a powerful death spell if the enemy's preemptive attack is to be decisive. Death spells are actions performed to eliminate a target with a limited spell path. Many death spells can range from the use of common objects to a magical death curse. The potential curse of death spells usually involves a sorcerer and an initiator. Any instant death is designed to take out a person within minutes or hours at most. Instant death spells are common among people who need immediate action against enemies. However, not all instant death spells should be performed, as these spells can have some serious consequences. Witchcraft is a great way to take revenge on your enemies by hurting them spiritually and physically. Kill your enemy at a considerable cost with simple Haitian witchcraft. We can also offer you simple and easy spells to kill your enemy in 2 days. Life is the most precious asset we have, so death revenge spells are the most powerful revenge spells in the world that can cause death. Powerful revenge spells that help you take the ultimate revenge on your enemies. Health revenge spells can cause serious health problems for your opponent. Revenge spells that will give your enemy sleepless nights and nightmares. If someone sees bad dreams and nightmares then make the bad dreams go away. Make your enemies taste their own medicine with revenge spells. Don't let evil win by allowing the evil person who has wronged you to suffer what they deserve, and don't let evil interfere in your world and make people think twice before harming another person who has done nothing to them by using revenge spells. The ultimate revenge. Voodoo/witchcraft death affects the mind, power system and karmic destiny of your victim. When it comes to the energy body, voodoo black spell absorbs all the energy present in it. As a result, any disease like diabetes becomes a serious disease. Even a simple cold can be dangerous to death in case of witchcraft. This witchcraft has the power to destroy someone's life and affect the lives of people connected to that person. The spell is performed by demonic forces that are invisible to humans but have power in the universe. Under a tamasic magical ritual, Pt. Suryanarayana Swami used to conjure these spirits with death spells against the person. No matter how great the power of a human being is, death spells cannot handle him. If a person has a good guardian angel, he will destroy the evil entity in battle. However, if it kills the guardian angel then the victim is helpless. In such a case, the victim dies only when he stops breathing. Call Or WhatsApp : +91-9352347033 E-mail : [email protected]
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