Come to a realization: this franchise is just too young

[frash.exe]

It's too young to be able to handle success.

I often size up the tendencies of this team with the tendencies of another, and I think, well, what's our identity?

We are an extremely conservative team. It's not so much the playcalling and whatever so don't come at me with "Oh, no we throw more sometimes yadda yadda yadda", that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking big picture here. And the big picture right now is that the Panthers organization is about as vanilla as it gets, from playcalling, to drafting, to personnel evaluations, etc. Whenever an opportunity arises that requires a little investment and might pan out for them, this team shies away from it.

The past seven years, there has been very little accountability. You see, When Fox came in, he inherited a badly coached team. It wasn't near as bad as it's record indicated, it just needed to be steered the right way, and, also, change a few parts. (Miami wasn't 1-15 bad either, Cam Cameron was just incompetent) Fox made his moves, all of a sudden the Panthers started going places, and then, they reached the Superbowl, in my opinion, a little prematurely.

You see, when they reached the Superbowl, that's when people fell in love with the guy, and basically every single thing about the Panthers. And that's when they started believing in Fox as this mystical miracle worker, as if every single thing good that went the Panthers way was a direct result of his work. You see, we as a fanbase, collectively don't say things like:

We didn't win the superbowl

We didn't make the playoffs in 2004

We didn't reach the superbowl

We didn't make the playoffs in 2006

We didn't make the playoffs in 2007

We went one-and-done in the 2008 divisional game

Rather, we say things like this...

We almost won the superbowl, if it wasn't for this, that, the other thing

We came within one game to making the playoffs, despite this, that, the other thing

We made an NFCC game!

We missed the playoffs by only one win

We went 7-9 despite this that and the other thing happening

WE WON THE NFC SOUTH!!!

Fox in my opinion succeeded too early for his own good. His reputation still feeds off the equity he "earned" with the superbowl berth over some of these fans. ...and he's not the only one. As much as he is criticized he is praised that much more for everything he does.

Now, on to the accountability thing a little more. ...This organization has little to none, honestly. I'm not saying bench the guy, but no personnel changes, probably nothing more than an undrafted rookie will be brought in, and that will probably suffice in the eyes of the organization and many fans. I've seen better quality QB cores tweaked and the only reason we have a new QBs coach is because McCoy took a promotion elsewhere. Speaking of McCoy, when he lost out in the running for the new OC, we "promoted" him to passing coordinator. Why? What the fug does that even mean? Were we afraid to hurt his feelings? Is this a football team or a gentlemen's club?

No it doesn't stop with QBs, so don't think this is just the central focus of the thread. The Jake Delhomme saga is just the latest of many many examples of a lack of accountability for this organization.

Everybody hated Trgovac, right? Everybody could see the soft style defense, the snuggle bear zone he used to run when we all know the only way to run a zone is aggressively or don't run one at all. In his last battle, he apparently had such a hard time gameplanning for Larry Fitzgerald, the guy had over 150 yards receiving. ...before the end of the first half! We all know his lack of savvy helped cost the Panthers games, many many times. We all know playing corners 10 yards off the receiver, on third and 3-5, is a pretty stupid thing to do, especially when the QB just audibles a short route to the WR and he's past the first down marker before the cornerback ever got a hand on him, yet Trgovac tried it, over, and over, and over again.

But had it not been for Trgovac's own self-doubt and his lack of a desire to continue coordinating defense, he would still be standing on the sidelines calling the same vanilla defense. IN spite of all that crap that he was pulling, Fox was ready to welcome him back with open arms.

Deshaun Foster was a shell-shocked running back who had been worn down by his 4th year, from multiple knee/leg injuries. He ran too high, he never hit the hole with punch, and he had little vision in crowds. He was not built to shove right up the middle, and it showed, but Fox spent 3 years trying it before he finally realized, it's not working, maybe, just maybe we can start using that uber-talented kid out of Memphis who broke records in college and who is just rotting on the bench. Oh, you need more examples of inept personnel who spent way more time here than they should have?

Dan Henning, Mr. run, run, pass, okay, bring out the special teams unit.

Dan Morgan: Most people knew him as the guy who couldn't stay healthy at all. John Fox knew him as the guy who made 20 tackles in the superbowl.

Keary Colbert: couldn't catch a damn thing.

Rucker: Basically deteriorated to the point of ineffectiveness before he retired.

About that last one, that actually seems to be a lingering habit with the Panthers. Where other teams cut a "beloved" fan favorite player just before they seriously decline, we'll readily send a player out there until he simply can't play anymore. They've done it with Minter, Buckner, Jeff Mitchell, Stephen Davis, Kris Mangum, etc.

But any concept of change or replacement is met with half the people that are afraid of the "knee-jerk" theory. Knee-Jerk reactions aren't the smartest way to do things but people have been so afraid of it they've made themselves completely numb of even obvious follies and poor play. That's not any better, as a matter of fact I would say it's even worse.

The Panthers fan base, some of what people say absolutely sickens me. There's that following that's so satisfied with status quo. There's the following who believes every word and piece Gantt writes. Gantt is nothing but the unofficial Kool-Aid Man of the Panthers. He rarely ever offers an independent feeling and instead constantly agrees with the coaching staff and the front office whenever they do something just because they're the ones in charge so they are 100% correct. He feeds off fan ignorance to make himself look smarter and I'm surprised more people don't see right through it. He'll probably be up for a job opportunity writing fluff pieces on Panthers.com in the near future if he keeps this up.

There's always a following who can't help but look down at the things we've done so much, they're distracted from everything more that we could do. Stop looking down, start looking up if you want to reach new heights. You'll never climb to the top of a mountain if you're too busy smelling the fresh air and looking down the 200 feet you climbed instead of looking up at the 300 more you have to go. It's the glass half full vs glass half empty mentality. People associate "half empty" in a negative light, which in reality, when I look at the things "half empty" about the Panthers, I'm always pondering ways we can improve.

I dare you, try climbing a mountain looking downward 100% of the time. Try driving while looking in the rear-view mirror and see how long you last without hopping a curb or rear-ending the guy in front of you.

Expect something more. It's not like saying if the fans picket outside of BOA demanding Jay Cutler to be traded here, the organization will make the call. But if this fanbase can get hardcore enough and lower it's tolerance level comparative to Cowboys fans', Giants fans', Steelers fans', maybe at one point, it'll make them work that much harder in order to improve. The way I perceive it, they are probably under the assumption that we're collectively satisfied with what we did this year, or at least "we should be", and truthfully, that makes their seats a little more comfortable.

Until all the softies who leave the game before the 4th quarter and walk around with the "2003 NFC Champions" T-shirts they've been wearing for the past 5 years who are still "just happy Carolina has a franchise" are bred out and replaced by more hardcore fans who don't embrace the excuses and are more concerned about what we can do in the future rather than what we did in 2003, or 2005, or 2008, I don't see it happening. Until we start looking at it like, lets just go out there and anything more than a slightly above average effort or an eek into the playoffs is just gravy, we're not going to go as far as we could. Until the stadium atmosphere gets amped up to be more exciting than a corporate banquet or a roadside flea market, I don't see it happening. As long as a ho-hum organization is complemented by a ho-hum fanbase, it's going to go by as slow as humanly possible.

[Fright]

It takes a cut throat owner to have a cut throat office. You can't have someone who keeps someone just over past accomplishments, which as much as I love the Big Cat, does too much. As long as the top of the team is fine w/ just slightly above average performances, you can't expect more.

A lot of teams would have heads rolling after letting the Cards do what they did to us, TWICE, but our office is fine w/ a nice record and playoff loss. Loyalty is nice to have, but sometimes it's a bitch.

You're dead on w/ the Fox comments, once again, past accomplishments keep him here. I love and hate the loyalty at the same time.

[Panthro]

:****:

[AKPantherFan]

dont confuse a fans "hopes" and "faith"in their team with blind sight.

Most of us understand what is before us, however I will NOT lose sight of the true meaning of being a fan because I get to wrapped up in the "business" of the game.

Being a fan means you SUPPORT your team, and when so much is outside of the fans ability to manipulate all we can do is support the team we love.

I maintain the right to support my team and hold out all hope at all cost, cause dammit when were down by 7 and there is 2 minutes left on the clock I will always believe we have a chance to win.

Thats why we are here, we cant play, we cant coach, we cant hire, we are here to show faith and be the light in the darkness.

Dont get corrupted by that which we cant change.

Sometimes I wish I knew only what I did in the early years of being a panther fan, and that was; football is a game of downs and scores. No matter what, if the other team scored it was our turn to do the same.

Not that it was'nt possible.

I choose to remain optimistic even today, i reserve that position as a fan.

[frash.exe]

AK i wouldn't even put you anywhere near as an example of the kind of fans I described.

You're more like the classic example of the kind of fan this franchise could use a bit more of. You rounded up a poo ton of signatures to get the logo painted somewhere on the field, and whether or not it had much or any pull into making the FO decide it was a good idea to put them on the 25 yard line, your efforts most likely had a bit to do with it since, hell, it happened just a short time after you rounded up the masses.

[AKPantherFan]

AK i wouldn't even put you anywhere near as an example of the kind of fans I described.

You're more like the classic example of the kind of fan this franchise could use a bit more of. You rounded up a poo ton of signatures to get the logo painted somewhere on the field, and whether or not it had much or any pull into making the FO decide it was a good idea to put them on the 25 yard line, your efforts most likely had a bit to do with it since, hell, it happened just a short time after you rounded up the masses.

I addmit that I didnt read all your post, and honestly my response wasnt geared toward your post. juST kinda speaking from the heart.

There are just some things we cant change as fans, but what we can do is find some way to scream loud as hell on 3rd downs even when we are down by 17 points.

thats what we do

[AKPantherFan]

I read it all now, you make some damn good points and the fans do need to grow into the franchise.

going 8-0 at home last season is a step in the right direction.

[AKPantherFan]

with all that you said, I have a feeling that if Fox doesnt deliver this season a better performance than last season its over for him.

Richardson is no idiot, he understands in the NFL you need a new perspective from time to time.

[AKPantherFan]

"But had it not been for Trgovac's own self-doubt and his lack of a desire to continue coordinating defense, he would still be standing on the sidelines calling the same vanilla defense. IN spite of all that crap that he was pulling, Fox was ready to welcome him back with open arms. "

I HONESTLY believe that no matter what was said in public that Turgo left at the request of maybe not fox but the Org.

Fox has class, and understands there is no reason to torch a man in public.

[carpanfan96]

Gotta agree with the players being driven into the ground and allowed to stay till there legs fell off. Also agree with the Foster, Morgan talk as well. Both of those guys should have been cut well before we ended up cutting them. Fox is still here because every time is seat gets a little warm the team wins some games and makes the playoff's.

I'm a big Jake fan, Because of the attitude and demeanor he brings to the team. I realize he's just an average to above average QB. He earned another shot at it though, just because he had an absolutely awful game doesn't mean you throw the guy to the curb. Imo though this should be his last chance, if he doesn't take this team back to the Superbowl and get a w this time. I think it would be time to look at upgrading the Qb spot either through the draft or FA. Jake might not be the best QB in the league and no one is going to mistake him for that, but this team does rally behind him and they do believe he's the man for the job. (players and coaches alike)

Like AK said, I reserve the right to believe in my team. Regardless of the situation, I can have hope that the team can turn it around or pick up the win. I had hope in the playoff loss to Arizona all the way up till midway through the 4th quarter. (was it likely no, was it possible. Anything's possible.) I've still go hope that Fox and Delhomme and the rest of the team can pull it off and get the Superbowl victory that eluded us last time.

Just how about this time we let Lloyd handle the kickoff's.

[frash.exe]

I admit it's very loooonnnnnggggg, but it's hard to consolidate all that thought into a few paragraphs.

...it's gonna piss a lot of other people off, what I wrote, but fug it.

Richardson deserves to see a lombardi in the trophy case at BOA in his lifetime.

[AKPantherFan]

I think Fox has learned hi lesson from being too loyal to his players.

at least I hope so..

[frash.exe]

I think Fox has learned hi lesson from being too loyal to his players.

at least I hope so..

in closing, because after this i'm hitting the hay, i'm gonna say there's probably a part of it like Fox puts it off, for instance, say Kris Mangum was still around, it would be like,

"I could get that safety valve TE value guy that fell dramatically down 2 rounds from where he was supposed to be picked, but meh, I need more linebackerzz!"

Delhomme's retirement is inevitable. At some point he's going to be throwing more interceptions than touchdowns and Fox is going to have to put a new guy in. Maybe it's Matt Moore, but he better be a damn good QB at least as good as Delhomme was, and if he's not that was just a half-assed effort on Fox's part to patch up the most important position on the team.

[X-Clown]

stuff

I was with you until you said we should be more like Cowboys fans. That completely invalidated the rest of your post.