Adrian Peterson

[Pantherball]

I notice you skipped right over mine and teerays posts. Please address those points specifically.

I'm not sure which one you think I skipped over, I tried to respond to every one.

But yeah from here on out I am going to skip over everything, because the biggest slap in your face fact you are both skipping over is that when our O plays a complete game for 60 minutes and Cam doesn't throw a pic, we win. And when they don't we lose.

And that's all there is to it. "Plain and simple". As long as you continue to refuse to see this, there's no point for me to keep going.

TOTAL yards given up by our D:

Arizona: 394 (477)

Packers: 419 (475)

Jaguars: 257 (265) W

Bears: 317 (543)

Saints: 444 (381)

Falcons:325 (368)

Redskins: 353(407) W

With the exception of the Saints game, our opponents D's have given up more yards than we do. So again, that argument is flawed. There IS NO direct correlation between yards and wins in there. We had the better defense in 4 out of 5 of our losses.

There is however a direct correlation between turn overs and our wins: 2-0 when we have no turn overs, 2-0 when we finish games, 2-0 when Cam Newton and this offense plays a complete game. 0-5 when those things do not happen.

If that logic made any sense, then it should apply to other teams as well, and those teams should have lost based on the yards they got gashed for alone. They didn't. Because yards without points are meaningless.

[Pantherball]

passing offenses turn the ball over....it happens.

when your D is garbage, your ST is garbage......those 1 or 2 offensive turnovers stand out a lot more. Offense still has done there part......they could be better but they have been good enough to win more.

And once again how come that logic doesn't apply to our opponents defenses when we play them?

By that logic haven't they ALSO been "garbage"? Look above. Look at the numbers yourself. We fielded the better defense most of those games. We just fielded the worse scoring offense.

[minkusz1013]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff

DVOA team efficiency statistics through 6 weeks. Panthers offense is ranked 8, Defense is ranked 32, Special Teams is ranked 32.

[The_Mango55]

I'm not sure which one you think I skipped over, I tried to respond to every one.

But yeah from here on out I am going to skip over everything, because the biggest slap in your face fact you are both skipping over is that when our O plays a complete game for 60 minutes and Cam doesn't throw a pic, we win. And when they don't we lose.

And that's all there is to it. "Plain and simple". As long as you continue to refuse to see this, there's no point for me to keep going.

This is where your argument falls apart completely. You're saying if the offense plays perfectly that we win. Well that's not a reach, I'm willing to be that Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, and plenty of other great QBs win 95% of games where they play well all 4 quarters and don't turn the ball over.

But what about when they throw 1 or 2 interceptions and go 3 and out a couple of times in a quarter? I'm sure the percentage of wins is not quite as good but it SURE AS HELL IS BETTER THAN ZERO. That's because you can't just accept that a defense will give up a touchdown any time we turn the ball over and be perfectly fine with it, you seem to think it's acceptable to accept a defense that gives up and blames the offense (not that ours does that, but you seem to think they should).

With the exception of the Saints game, our opponents D's have given up more yards than we do. So again, that argument is flawed. There IS NO direct correlation between yards and wins in there. We had the better defense in 4 out of 5 of our losses.

...

If that logic made any sense, then it should apply to other teams as well, and those teams should have lost based on the yards they got gashed for alone. They didn't. Because yards without points are meaningless

You're contradicting yourself here. Yards without points are meaningless so how can you say we had "the better defense" just because of the yards gained?

[teeray]

I'm not sure which one you think I skipped over, I tried to respond to every one.

But yeah from here on out I am going to skip over everything, because the biggest slap in your face fact you are both skipping over is that when our O plays a complete game for 60 minutes and Cam doesn't throw a pic, we win. And when they don't we lose.

And that's all there is to it. "Plain and simple". As long as you continue to refuse to see this, there's no point for me to keep going.

TOTAL yards given up by our D:

Arizona: 394 (477)

Packers: 419 (475)

Jaguars: 257 (265) W

Bears: 317 (543)

Saints: 444 (381)

Falcons:325 (368)

Redskins: 353(407) W

With the exception of the Saints game, our opponents D's have given up more yards than we do. So again, that argument is flawed. There IS NO direct correlation between yards and wins in there. We had the better defense in 4 out of 5 of our losses.

There is however a direct correlation between turn overs and our wins: 2-0 when we have no turn overs, 2-0 when we finish games, 2-0 when Cam Newton and this offense plays a complete game. 0-5 when those things do not happen.

If that logic made any sense, then it should apply to other teams as well, and those teams should have lost based on the yards they got gashed for alone. They didn't. Because yards without points are meaningless.

First of all why are you so caught up in total yards. They are a useless gauge for defenses or offenses.

Also you continue to reiterate my point that our defense is so bad that we cannot even afford one turnover in any game. For that I thank you but I am having a hard time understanding why you think that makes your point. You are admitting our defense is so bad that we cannot even give up one turnover but somehow you are putting that on the offense.

I mean, it may be the worst argument in the history of the Huddle and that is saying something. :lol:

:confused:

[Pantherball]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff

DVOA team efficiency statistics through 6 weeks. Panthers offense is ranked 8, Defense is ranked 32, Special Teams is ranked 32.

I don't really care about DVOA rankings and very few people do. It doesn't explain WHY they are what they are. It uses a million different scenarios which are rarely trends or actual statistics, and even includes pre-season-based calculations. Strength of schedule for example. Something that is a pointless word thrown around and means nothing on each and every Sunday or each and every year. You could have just as easily pointed to points allowed and said we're 28th. It's the same argument.

It doesn't take a freaking mathematician or analyst to figure out we are a team averaging 416 yards per game, but our points don't equal up to that number. We should be averaging 30 legitimate points and we only did it once.

[Pantherball]

First of all why are you so caught up in total yards. They are a useless gauge for defenses or offenses.

Also you continue to reiterate my point that our defense is so bad that we cannot even afford one turnover in any game. For that I thank you but I am having a hard time understanding why you think that makes your point. You are admitting our defense is so bad that we cannot even give up one turnover but somehow you are putting that on the offense.

I mean, it may be the worst argument in the history of the Huddle and that is saying something. :lol:

:confused:

I honestly think you're the worst argument in Huddle history.

[mav1234]

still having trouble understanding "legitimate points."

if a team goes up by 14, and our offense scores a TD some time after that, are those points we just scored legitimate? what if we then tie the game? do those points all become legitimate? is there a certain point in the game at which points become "garbage time"?

I am just curious because the only game I felt like was "garbage time" was vs Atlanta...

[teeray]

I don't really care about DVOA rankings and very few people do. It doesn't explain WHY they are what they are. It uses a million different scenarios which are rarely trends or actual statistics, and even includes pre-season-based calculations. Strength of schedule for example. Something that is a pointless word thrown around and means nothing on each and every Sunday or each and every year. You could have just as easily pointed to points allowed and said we're 28th. It's the same argument.

It doesn't take a freaking mathematician or analyst to figure out we are a team averaging 416 yards per game, but our points don't equal up to that number. We should be averaging 30 legitimate points and we only did it once.

what about advanced NFL statistics. We are no longer dead last! Yay! We are 29th.

I am sure you don't care about them either though. Total yards is the only reasonable measure :rofl:

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teampage.php

[teeray]

I honestly think you're the worst argument in Huddle history.

How could you say that if you just started this month?? Oh wait I forgot you are PF4L. ;)

[minkusz1013]

I don't really care about DVOA rankings and very few people do. It doesn't explain WHY they are what they are. It uses a million different scenarios which are rarely trends or actual statistics, and even includes pre-season-based calculations. Strength of schedule for example. Something that is a pointless word thrown around and means nothing on each and every Sunday or each and every year. You could have just as easily pointed to points allowed and said we're 28th. It's the same argument.

It doesn't take a freaking mathematician or analyst to figure out we are a team averaging 416 yards per game, but our points don't equal up to that number. We should be averaging 30 legitimate points and we only did it once.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods#dvoa

Team DVOA is not based on preseason stats or strength of schedule.

The whole purpose of DVOA is to determine how a team is performing compared to the average performance. When compared to the average NFL defensive performance this year, the Panthers rank last.

You can use whatever stats you like, but clearly the defense is not performing. At all. If you want to pick on the offense, thats up to you.

[Pantherball]

still having trouble understanding "legitimate points."

if a team goes up by 14, and our offense scores 7 immediately, are those points legitimate? what if we then tie the game? do those points all become legitimate?

Of course. It's when they go up by 2 scores late in the game and we only have time to score 1. When you need a miracle. GB and Bears for example. Made no difference if we scored a TD. Not to us and not to our opponents. We can get the first....we just can't get the one that ties or wins the game.

We have yet to score a legitimate tying or leading drive in the 4th quarter. Every time a drive would have either tied or taken the lead we failed with the exception of Jaguars. If that game makes you confident enough to say this offense and Cam Newton can finish games when we need to well then I suspect you will continue to blame it on the defense when we lose.

I just have one question. Have you seen one successful 2 minute offense YET from this team? I haven't. Neither in the first half or at the end of the game. That concerns me a lot more than run defense. We choked every time we had to go into this mode.

[Pantherball]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods#dvoa

Team DVOA is not based on preseason stats or strength of schedule.

The whole purpose of DVOA is to determine how a team is performing compared to the average performance. When compared to the average NFL defensive performance this year, the Panthers rank last.

You can use whatever stats you like, but clearly the defense is not performing. At all. If you want to pick on the offense, thats up to you.

Dude, they try to put a number on WEATHER! It's like Total QB rating....they put numbers on "clutch".

Like I said, in the end, it's the same argument: 28 points allowed that makes our D look bad. An easy number to pick on that says nothing about the real story behind the numbers.

[teeray]

Like I said, it's the same argument 28 points allowed. An easy number to pick on that says nothing about the real story behind the numbers.

:lol: actually it is the complete opposite of that. Wow. It analyzes the stats further to give you a more complete picture of a defense other than PPG and total yards which in a vacuum are the worst ways to determine how good your defense is. At least at nfladvancedstatistics they do.

Now I am just getting sad for you :(

Maybe you should create a new alt and start over.... again.