Adrian Peterson

[Pantherball]

LOL!!! So if I am understanding you correctly you don't think it is too much to ask for our offense to be great all four quarters and then to defend the defense you point to one half of football this season.

More importantly again you didn't acknowledge my point (although I guess you think you did which is kinda funny).

How come so many other teams can withstand turnovers without giving up 30 points?? Just answer that question.

And also explain why our defense is dead last in advanced statistics which is infinitely more valuable than yards per game in judging defenses.

Or you can keep trying to not answer it. Whatever makes you feel better.

I already answered that question 5 times already. You will never be objective enough to EVER see anything wrong with Cam Newton throwing 2 interceptions or more a game being a bad thing. You're that freaking obsessed. No point in arguing with you any further. You are the definition of "rabid fan".

And btw, where do you see me "defending" the defense? Saying we have an mediocre defense is defending them? Again, you're like all kinds of nuts man.

[mav1234]

the problem is our offense alone hasn't won or lost us a single game this year. The two games we've won, the defense has made plays to hold our opponents.

In every game we lost you can see miscues on the offense (and defense).

Cam shoulders some of the blame for our losses, but so do many other players, particularly on other units (but not exclusively, including Legs in some games and Bell at times as well)...

The problem people have I think is that you are acting like Cam lost us the game, when in reality even if he hadn't turned the ball over against the Falcons, there is a good chance we would have lost because our defense had already given up our lead... The defense proved completely unable to stop the Falcons in the 4th quarter, allowing them to put up a ton of points on us.

[bigdog10]

Peterson is going to be a problem this Sunday. The problem with him is he has the ability to get to the edge quick and turn it up field in a hurry. The panthers struggle tremendously in getting to the edge and stopping the run (Dan Connor is a huge part of this problem, he is great on runs up the middle, but lacks the speed to get to the edge and fill the gap).

I would run blitz on nearly every play. If the panthers can hold Peterson under 125, I would be stoked.

Focus on stopping the run and let Ponder beat you.

The panthers offense will play a huge role in this game also. If we can get to a lead, the vikings have shown that they will abandon the run pretty quick. The first couple possesions of this game will be critical.

[the butch]

as long as cam [or the offense in general for that matter] doesn't turn the ball over, we win the game. it's going to be difficult to score close to 30 simply because the Vikings can run the ball so well and play keep away. our D MUST get stops for us to be successful against the vikes, plain and simple. cam had not interceptions against the skins, so lets hope that becomes a trend.

[Pantherball]

the problem is our offense alone hasn't won or lost us a single game this year. The two games we've won, the defense has made plays to hold our opponents.

In every game we lost you can see miscues on the offense (and defense).

Cam shoulders some of the blame for our losses, but so do many other players, particularly on other units (but not exclusively, including Legs in some games and Bell at times as well)...

The problem people have I think is that you are acting like Cam lost us the game, when in reality even if he hadn't turned the ball over against the Falcons, there is a good chance we would have lost because our defense had already given up our lead... The defense proved completely unable to stop the Falcons in the 4th quarter, allowing them to put up a ton of points on us.

But he's without a doubt the biggest difference. Before anything else. This week simply proved that once again and we still underperformed if you ask me. We should have had 36-40 points this past game. And next week it will be the same thing.

If we don't turn the ball over and we perform to the best of our ability, we should score 30 points again.

It's what all top offenses do. If you're not expecting 30 points a game out of our offense, your expectations are not yet in line with this team. We should be averaging 30 points a game just like the Saints. GB put up 33 on the Vikings. We should be able to do the same thing. We are the same type of powerhouse offense and average defense. We're built the same way as they are, as the Patriots as the Saints.

If we don't, expect a loss, cause the Vikings, Peterson and their new QB are fully capable of dropping 30 on us.

[wade]

After watching Ponder today I say that will be about as stupid as Arizona trying to do it to us. 3 more minutes in that game and GB would have lost. We limit turn overs we win. Worrying about the run is silly in a league when passing is king.

You...did watch the Bears game I assume? Jay Cutler threw for 100 yards and 0 TD's. Cam went for almost 400. Each team had 1 turnover. Do you really not think AP is capable of rushing for 200+ and single-handedly winning it for Minnesota? I do.

[CRA]

You...did watch the Bears game I assume? Jay Cutler threw for 100 yards and 0 TD's. Cam went for almost 400. Each team had 1 turnover. Do you really not think AP is capable of rushing for 200+ and single-handedly winning it for Minnesota? I do.

Bears also had a PR for a TD, an INT returned for a TD, and 70+ yard KO return.....

Vikings will need more than Peterson....Bears had a lot more than just Forte running it.

Peteron is going to run for around 150. Carolina just needs to not allow the "other stuff" that the Bears for example got.

[teeray]

I already answered that question 5 times already. You will never be objective enough to EVER see anything wrong with Cam Newton throwing 2 interceptions or more a game being a bad thing. You're that freaking obsessed. No point in arguing with you any further. You are the definition of "rabid fan".

And btw, where do you see me "defending" the defense? Saying we have an mediocre defense is defending them? Again, you're like all kinds of nuts man.

I never said that having turnovers wasn't a bad thing. But they happen and they happen more often with a rookie QB. But I am talking about our defense right now, not our offense. I don't recall ever saying that Cam and the offense has been perfect.

I think you said our defense was "average". How does being last in the NFL in advanced statistics "average"? That is decidedly below average. Poor actually.

If we had an "average" defense we would have a better record right now.

Like all those other teams with average defenses that still hold teams under 20 points despite turnovers.

You actually said the New England's defense is worse than ours right now a few posts ago. Their offense had 4 turnovers two weeks ago and gave up 16 points.

And when you start trying to discredit the poster as a "rabid fan" and attacking my ability to be objective it is proof that you have lost the argument and now must try to discredit me to try and save face. Unfortunately the statistics speak for themselves.

[wade]

Bears also had a PR for a TD, an INT returned for a TD, and 70+ yard KO return.....

Vikings will need more than Peterson....Bears had a lot more than just Forte running it.

Sure. But the problem with allowing that much in the run game is it keeps the Panthers' strongest unit off the field. It's to the point that I cringe anytime the Panthers are in a spot that they NEED a stop, particularly at the end of games.

[Pantherball]

And whoever said that offenses are starting to slow down doesn't know what they are talking about. Two weeks ago there was only one team averaging over 30 points a game. The Saints were averaging 30.8. The others were right at ~29. This week there are 4 teams averaging over 30 points a game, on a week when the Patriots were off.

Saints 34.1

GB 32.9

Bills 31.3

Patriots 30.8

Ravens 29.6

So no they are not slowing down, the top offenses have turned it on even more. Let's not even talk about the Saints versus Colts last night...62-7? Again this is an offense driven league and it's not going anywhere.

Where are the Panthers? Not even in the top 10 points scored. We're the only team that's built like those top 4, who is a top 5 offense, and are not in this most important statistic. (Btw, the Ravens are probably the best all around team right now so watch out for them)

This weekend was the first weekend this offense played like it should. This is the first time this year this team played like it should. This is what I have been expecting to see all year long. These are the expectations Rivera is talking about. This is what fans should be expecting.

I'm not worried about stopping Peterson. That's no longer my mentality. That's cautious, defensive, mentality. I am worried about us only scoring 20 with the final 7 when it doesn't matter on teams with the potential to drop 30 on you at will, versus us scoring 27-30 legit points and another 7-10 to put the game away.

We're still not at a point where I feel confident in this O that no matter where we are up or down, when the game is on the line, all we need to do is put the ball in Cam's hands and he closes the game. We're not there. That's the confidence we need to be shooting for. I feel confident our D can give Cam a chance if needed. I still don't feel confident enough to feel like he can do that yet. Because the only way we get there, is not by closing games by being up by 2 scores(and btw, if you notice, the defense DIDN'T need that kind of a cushion yesterday). It's when we're down by 7 or 3, that he comes back from behind and wins the game. That's when you arrive as an offense. We did that once against the Jaguars and I'm not sure you can even call that a legit game.

[X-Clown]

But he's without a doubt the biggest difference. Before anything else. This week simply proved that once again and we still underperformed if you ask me. We should have had 36-40 points this past game. And next week it will be the same thing.

If we don't turn the ball over and we perform to the best of our ability, we should score 30 points again.

It's what all top offenses do. If you're not expecting 30 points a game out of our offense, your expectations are not yet in line with this team. We should be averaging 30 points a game just like the Saints. GB put up 33 on the Vikings. We should be able to do the same thing. We are the same type of powerhouse offense and average defense. We're built the same way as they are, as the Patriots as the Saints.

If we don't, expect a loss, cause the Vikings, Peterson and their new QB are fully capable of dropping 30 on us.

Yeah guys, you should expect our first year quarterback who had no training camp and is in a new system to put up points as efficiently right away as Rodgers, Brees, and Brady, the top 3 QBs in the league and all of who will likely be HOFers and who have had several years within the same system. Because that's really the kind of expectations that you should have and if not you're not a real fan or some other kind of nonsense. GTFO.

[Pantherball]

I never said that having turnovers wasn't a bad thing. But they happen and they happen more often with a rookie QB. But I am talking about our defense right now, not our offense. I don't recall ever saying that Cam and the offense has been perfect.

I think you said our defense was "average". How does being last in the NFL in advanced statistics "average"? That is decidedly below average. Poor actually.

If we had an "average" defense we would have a better record right now.

Like all those other teams with average defenses that still hold teams under 20 points despite turnovers.

You actually said the New England's defense is worse than ours right now a few posts ago. Their offense had 4 turnovers two weeks ago and gave up 16 points.

And when you start trying to discredit the poster as a "rabid fan" and attacking my ability to be objective it is proof that you have lost the argument and now must try to discredit me to try and save face. Unfortunately the statistics speak for themselves.

Yes and what happened in the final moments of the game in the red zone? Tom Brady threaded a needle for the winning touchdown coming back from behind with barely time on the clock in the 4th quarter. Cam can throw 10 picks as long as he makes up for them. But so far the clutch factor has been missing, I don't care what anyone says. We have yet to see this from Cam.

The only way I've lost the argument is in your biased brain. Because the facts are facts and we ARE 2-0 when we don't turn over the ball and finish games. We're 0-5 when we don't. That's a fact.

You're the only that fails to see this. And again, your logic is one sided as hell. If we had a GOOD offense we wouldn't be 14th in points scored. It would match up with our overall offense, which is ranked 5th.

Don't you get the difference in both scoring points for and against have been a direct result of our offense underperformance?

[teeray]

And whoever said that offenses are starting to slow down doesn't know what they are talking about. Two weeks ago there was only one team averaging over 30 points a game. The Saints were averaging 30.8. The others were right at ~29. This week there are 4 teams averaging over 30 points a game, on a week when the Patriots were off.

Saints 34.1

GB 32.9

Bills 31.3

Patriots 30.8

Ravens 29.6

So no they are not slowing down, the top offenses have turned it on even more. Let's not even talk about the Saints versus Colts last night...62-7? Again this is an offense driven league and it's not going anywhere.

Where are the Panthers? Not even in the top 10 points scored. We're the only team that's built like those top 4, who is a top 5 offense, and are not in this most important statistic. (Btw, the Ravens are probably the best all around team right now so watch out for them)

This weekend was the first weekend this offense played like it should. This is the first time this year this team played like it should. This is what I have been expecting to see all year long. These are the expectations Rivera is talking about. This is what fans should be expecting.

I'm not worried about stopping Peterson. That's no longer my mentality. That's cautious, defensive, mentality. I am worried about us only scoring 20 with the final 7 when it doesn't matter on teams with the potential to drop 30 on you at will, versus us scoring 27-30 legit points and another 7-10 to put the game away.

We're still not at a point where I feel confident in this O that no matter where we are up or down, when the game is on the line, all we need to do is put the ball in Cam's hands and he closes the game. We're not there. That's the confidence we need to be shooting for. I feel confident our D can give Cam a chance if needed. I still don't feel confident enough to feel like he can do that yet. Because the only way we get there, is not by closing games by being up by 2 scores(and btw, if you notice, the defense DIDN'T need that kind of a cushion yesterday). It's when we're down by 7 or 3, that he comes back from behind and wins the game. That's when you arrive as an offense. We did that once against the Jaguars and I'm not sure you can even call that a legit game.

Yes and what happened in the final moments of the game in the red zone? Tom Brady threaded a needle for the winning touchdown coming back from behind with barely time on the clock in the 4th quarter. Cam can throw 10 picks as long as he makes up for them. But so far the clutch factor has been missing, I don't care what anyone says. We have yet to see this from Cam.

The only way I've lost the argument is in your biased brain. Because the facts are facts and we ARE 2-0 when we don't turn over the ball and finish games. We're 0-5 when we don't. That's a fact.

You're the only that fails to see this. And again, your logic is one sided as hell. If we had a GOOD offense we wouldn't be 14th in points scored. It would match up with our overall offense, which is ranked 5th.

Don't you get the difference in both scoring points for and against have been a direct result of our offense underperformance?

I will make just a couple of more points and then I will leave you alone Pantherball.

There are only really two games in which you could make a valid argument that offensive turnovers really killed us and that is the Green Bay and Atlanta games. The defense still has to account for the Arizona, Chicago, and New Orleans games. All of which we gave up 28 points or more and and only had one turnover.

One turnover should not equate to 28+ points even with an average defense.

And maybe I should ask this a different way. Do you think that the fact that we are last in advanced statistics on defense is because of the offense??

If not then your argument has boiled down to "Our defense isn't very good, therefore are offense has to be really great and have no turnovers in order to win. Therefore if the offense isn't great or has any turnovers it is the offense's fault that we lost"

That is what you are saying and it is stupid on its face. It is ridiculous. If anything you are agreeing with me that our defense has left us with exactly zero room for error on the offensive side.

There is a great deal of irony that you bring up the New Orleans game last night.

They scored 62 points. Therefore it is an offensive league, right? I guess you don't want us to pay attention to the fact that they only gave up 7 points and forced 3 turnovers also right??

We forced 3 turnovers yesterday and still gave up 20 points :eek:

We will never be successful unless our defense improves. It is as simple as that. And I think we will improve as we get healthy and as they learn how to run this scheme. But right now we are really, really bad.

[Pantherball]

Yeah guys, you should expect our first year quarterback who had no training camp and is in a new system to put up points as efficiently right away as Rodgers, Brees, and Brady, the top 3 QBs in the league and all of who will likely be HOFers and who have had several years within the same system. Because that's really the kind of expectations that you should have and if not you're not a real fan or some other kind of nonsense. GTFO.

No, but you should expect a team who puts up ~450 yards a game to score 30 points, rookie or not.

You SHOULD expect a top 5 offense to score points like a top 5 offense.

And you should expect a rookie QB to lose games when he throws 2 picks a game.

You shouldn't "expect" a defense missing their 2 best players to overcome 2 turnovers and a rookie QB every game they play. That's retarded.