Adrian Peterson

[mav1234]

My feeling is that forcing a turnover, or holding a team to a fieldgoal instead of a touchdown, is as much of a triumph for this defense in the first quarter as it is in the fourth. The score doesn't reset when you hit the 4th...

Obviously we've had some 4th quarter let downs, and a lot of that has to do with our run defense. Our offense doesn't have a chance to score when our defense can't get off the field, be it due to penalties or whatever.

[The_Mango55]

The funniest thing is in all these arguments about defense, everyone fails to see how in ever game we lost the other team's D got mawled in yards by us.

Other D's were giving up 450-500 yards a game to us! How did they win with such pooty defenses? Again....thanks to our offense being the most inefficient offense in the league and their love for charity. They won, we lost.

The logic is broken and only works one way. Why doesn't this logic apply to all teams? Shouldn't they have lost if their defenses were worse than ours?

The only thing that's really simple and everyone can understand is this: 0-2 when 0 turnovers and we score in the 4th quarter to finish the game. 5-0 when we have turnovers and choke in the 4th quarter.

It really doesn't get any simpler than that.

Are turnovers bad?: Obviously, I think it goes without saying that teams would rather not turn the ball over.

Are we a worse than average team at turnovers?: Nope, we are 15th in total turnovers, and that includes teams that have had a bye week. For example the New England Patriots have the same number of turnovers and have played fewer games.

Is it realistic to expect teams to have no turnovers?: Nope, only 3 teams average fewer than 1 turnover a game. 2 of those teams are good (Houston, Detroit) and one of them is bad (Minnesota).

[Pantherball]

In the Falcons game the Falcons had 7 true possessions and scored on 5 of them and had TDs on 4 of them.

Your entire argument has basically been, "Our offense has to be perfect in order for us to win games so therefore you can't blame the defense" That is a weak argument.

Plus not surprisingly you missed my entire point. I never said that our offense didn't shoulder some of the blame in the Falcons loss. I simply said the turnovers only accounted for one Atlanta score. Therefore although you can put some of the blame on the offense for losing the game (I agree with you on that) it had very little to do with giving up 31 points. That was all on the defense.

You still haven't quite gotten to the point where you can answer a couple simple questions.

How do you account for all those teams that turned the ball over last Sunday but still held their opponents to 20 points or less??

And why do you continue to ignore the fact that we were last in the NFL defense in advanced statistics (which takes into account penalties, forced turnovers, etc)??

Your silence on those two points speaks volumes.

I may have rose colored glasses but my view of this defense is through statistics and reality.

I'll tell you how: at the end of the game, their offense finished in the 4th quarter. They didn't stop playing or gave the ball back. They CLOSED THE GAME.

And I also showed you were wrong and it accounted for 14 points and you refuse to acknowledge it. Interception thrown in the endzone instead of a TD = points lost. Newton's pick in the endzone cost us 7 points just as much as his interceptions on our own end of the field cost us 7 points on many occasions. Again his two pics accounted for a 14 point swing....the exact same amount we got beat by: 14 points. The funny thing is if we don't throw that 4th quarter pick, they probably don't even get to 31.

And you still ignore the fact you don't wanna see we're 2-0 when Newton doesn't throw costly picks, and 0-5 when he does. I mean I don't know what to say, the numbers speaks for themselves. It doesn't matter how good your offense is, if on the Sunday you play, you are a passing team and your QB has an average rating of 80 QBR. Your offense is AVERAGE that day.

How do you explain the biggest difference between last week and this week is Cam Newton's QB rating and no turn-overs resulting in win? The QB position is the biggest aspect of most teams, certainly the biggest aspect of passing teams, and definitely the biggest aspect of this team. When your QB has a average day, you going to get average results. When you also have an average defense, just like your opponents, but their offense performs and your doesn't, you lose the game.

Average O + Average D against Average D + Good O = Loss.

I can't ask my defense to be a top 5 defense. I sure as hell can ask my O to play like they are a top 5 offense, which is what they are. They proved it again yesterday. When they play like they should we win. When they don't we lose.

[mav1234]

we don't have an average defense... our defense is bottom 5 in a lot of categories, and while our passing yards may be "average", that's just because people can run at will on us.

edit: Newton's pick didn't solely cost us points. Newton's picks + defenses inability to stop anything and anyone cost us points.

[teeray]

The funniest thing is in all these arguments about defense, everyone fails to see how in ever game we lost the other team's D got mawled in yards by us.

Other D's were giving up 450-500 yards a game to us! How did they win with such pooty defenses? Again....thanks to our offense being the most inefficient offense in the league and their love for charity. They won, we lost.

The logic is broken and only works one way. Why doesn't this logic apply to all teams? Shouldn't they have lost if their defenses were worse than ours?

The only thing that's really simple and everyone can understand is this: 0-2 when 0 turnovers and we score in the 4th quarter to finish the game. 5-0 when we have turnovers and choke in the 4th quarter.

It really doesn't get any simpler than that.

Your logic doesn't apply to all teams. All across the league other teams turned the ball over and still hold teams to under 20 points. Literally every week as a matter of fact.

Again why don't you acknowledge that in advanced statistics which take into account penalties, yards per snap, forced turnovers, TD to possession ratio, etc. that we rated dead last in the league going into this past weekend??

[wcuCATZ]

PF4L?? I thought that guy was suppose to gtfo if we started out the season 1 and 5. Damn there goes the silver lining in all this losing.

[Pantherball]

Are turnovers bad?: Obviously, I think it goes without saying that teams would rather not turn the ball over.

Are we a worse than average team at turnovers?: Nope, we are 15th in total turnovers, and that includes teams that have had a bye week. For example the New England Patriots have the same number of turnovers and have played fewer games.

Is it realistic to expect teams to have no turnovers?: Nope, only 3 teams average fewer than 1 turnover a game. 2 of those teams are good (Houston, Detroit) and one of them is bad (Minnesota).

After yesterday. We were 25th after last weekend which is what this conversation is about. The difference between then and now.

Is it realistic for me to expect an offense to score points in the 4th quarter and play a full game like most teams do and ours did yesterday?

[teeray]

I'll tell you how: at the end of the game, their offense finished in the 4th quarter. They didn't stop playing or gave the ball back. They CLOSED THE GAME.

And I also showed you were wrong and it accounted for 14 points and you refuse to acknowledge it. Interception thrown in the endzone instead of a TD = points lost. Newton's pick in the endzone cost us 7 points just as much as his interceptions on our own end of the field cost us 7 points on many occasions. Again his two pics accounted for a 14 point swing....the exact same amount we got beat by: 14 points. The funny thing is if we don't throw that 4th quarter pick, they probably don't even get to 31.

And you still ignore the fact you don't wanna see we're 2-0 when Newton doesn't throw costly picks, and 0-5 when he does. I mean I don't know what to say, the numbers speaks for themselves. It doesn't matter how good your offense is, if on the Sunday you play, you are a passing team and your QB has an average rating of 80 QBR. Your offense is AVERAGE that day.

How do you explain the biggest difference between last week and this week is Cam Newton's QB rating and no turn-overs resulting in win? The QB position is the biggest aspect of most teams, certainly the biggest aspect of passing teams, and definitely the biggest aspect of this team. When your QB has a average day, you going to get average results. When you also have an average defense, just like your opponents, but their offense performs and your doesn't, you lose the game.

Average O + Average D against Average D + Good O = Loss.

I can't ask my defense to be a top 5 defense. I sure as hell can ask my O to play like they are a top 5 offense, which is what they are. They proved it again yesterday. When they play like they should we win. When they don't we lose.

Your math is wrong. The offense didn't account for 14 Falcon's points. It accounted for 7 of the 31. Again the pick in the endzone may have contributed to losing against the Falcons but it had no bearing on the Falcon's point total.

The Falcons scored on 5 of their 7 possessions. 4 of which were TDs. That kind of performance will not beat anybody even if your offense has a good day.

And it is ironic that you keep talking about having the same standard as you do for everyone else in regards to our offense but you continue to try not to answer how so many teams turn the ball over and still hold the opposing team's to under 20 points literally every week in the NFL.

Why shouldn't we have that same standard for our defense??

[The_Mango55]

After yesterday. We were 25th after last weekend which is what this conversation is about. The difference between then and now.

Is it realistic for me to expect an offense to score points in the 4th quarter and play a full game like most teams do and ours did yesterday?

We've failed to score points in the 4th only twice.

[Pantherball]

Your logic doesn't apply to all teams. All across the league other teams turned the ball over and still hold teams to under 20 points. Literally every week as a matter of fact.

Again why don't you acknowledge that in advanced statistics which take into account penalties, yards per snap, forced turnovers, TD to possession ratio, etc. that we rated dead last in the league going into this past weekend??

Dude I acknowledged it 3 times already. Which part of we didn't finish the game in the 4th quarter did you not get? That is your difference. Our O's only done that twice this year...we won both times!

When are you going to take your head out of your ass and realize the points our offense was bleeding to our opponents in the most critical situations, and their inability to put games away, cost us the games?

The only one refusing to acknowledge anything is you...when Cam and this offense has a good day we win. When we have a bad day, we lose. When we play a complete game offensively for 60 minutes we win. When we don't we lose. When we don't give away 14 points a game, we win. When we do, we lose. Defense has remained consistent throughout...losses or wins.

And our D has done the same thing other D's have done too when it comes to making up for offenses. Take GB for example. We were 13-0 starting off the game. Our D played their ass off until we turned the ball over 4 times. They shut out GB on their first 2 possessions. And our D still held GB to only 9 points off of 4 turnovers. What more can you ask of a D? We should have been blown out if we had a bad defense.

A D can make up for turnovers in the game, and they can keep you in the game. Our D did that against every team this year. They even did it against the Bears. They kept the score within 3 points for like 20 minutes and our O couldn't do poo...and then finally broke down. Go figure. It's still the offense that has to put more points on the board than our opponent to win the game.

[Pantherball]

We've failed to score points in the 4th only twice.

You're counting garbage time. Garbage points. We were down by two scores or more.

[The_Mango55]

You're counting garbage time. Garbage points. We were down by two scores or more.

Garbage time smarbage time. Ever hear of an onside kick?

Was that 15 points Denver scored yesterday "garbage time"?

Also we scored a clearly not garbage time touchdown to take the lead over New Orleans.

[teeray]

Dude I acknowledged it 3 times already. Which part of we didn't finish the game in the 4th quarter did you not get? That is your difference. Our O's only done that twice this year...we won both times!

When are you going to take your head out of your ass and realize the points our offense was bleeding to our opponents in the most critical situations, and their inability to put games away, cost us the games?

The only one refusing to acknowledge anything is you...when Cam and this offense has a good day we win. When we have a bad day, we lose. When we play a complete game offensively for 60 minutes we win. When we don't we lose. When we don't give away 14 points a game, we win. When we do, we lose. Defense has remained consistent throughout...losses or wins.

And our D has done the same thing other D's have done too when it comes to making up for offenses. Take GB for example. We were 13-0 starting off the game. Our D played their ass off until we turned the ball over 4 times. They shut out GB on their first 2 possessions. And our D still held GB to only 9 points off of 4 turnovers. What more can you ask of a D? We should have been blown out if we had a bad defense.

A D can make up for turnovers in the game, and they can keep you in the game. Our D did that against every team this year. They even did it against the Bears. They kept the score within 3 points for like 20 minutes and our O couldn't do poo...and then finally broke down. Go figure. It's still the offense that has to put more points on the board than our opponent to win the game.

LOL!!! So if I am understanding you correctly you don't think it is too much to ask for our offense to be great all four quarters and then in a feeble attempt to defend the defense you point to one quarter of football against Green Bay and the second half of the Falcons game. Which is ironic because we forced exactly 1 punt in the second half of the Falcons game in 4 possessions. :lol:

More importantly again you didn't acknowledge my point (although I guess you think you did which is kinda funny).

How come so many other teams can withstand turnovers without giving up 30 points?? Just answer that question.

And also explain why our defense is dead last in advanced statistics which is infinitely more valuable than yards per game in judging defenses.

Or you can keep trying to not answer it. Whatever makes you feel better.

[Pantherball]

It's amazing to me how so many people say Cam Newton is our offense, which personally I don't completely agree with but I can live with thinking he's been the biggest improvement over last year. What I can't live with is that the same people that say he's our offense, and credit him completely for our offensive performance then proceed to deflect the blame when Cam Newton, aka "our offense", has a sub-par day.

If your realize he's our offense, of course our offense is sub-par when he's sub-par. It goes BOTH WAYS. But no...when he has an amazing day: Cam Newton's amazing. When he has 5 mediocre games back to back: defense sucks.

I can see this is just going to continue so....have fun with this logic. You gotta love the expert analysis though. The only thing more pathetic is that the media seems to gobble it up too.