Hurney (you knew this thread was coming)

[panthers55]

30-40 since 07

0 playoff victories

That's really all that needs to be said here.

Quite a few are worse GM's and quite a few are better. IMO he should have been thrown out with the rest of the trash after last season, but it's not my call.

If you are going to use Hurney's record use it all. Since he became GM the Panthers are 72-72 through 2010. Didn't include this year because we don't know how things will shake out. Not too bad for a guy still in his first gig.

5-4 in playoffs victories, 1 NFC Championship, 2 division titles.

That is the reality, not a snippet from the past 4 years.

Compare that to Scott Piioli (14-18) or Bruce Allen (10-22) who are considered very good GMs. And if you say it is only their third season so it is too early to tell I would only say that in Hurney's first 2 years we went (18-14).

[Lumps]

Completely reliant on a person's idea of a good GM. If winning games is one of them, neither example is a 'very good' GM.

[Snake]

I dont think it what Hurney has done in the Draft more than what he has done in FA. They basically gave up on FA 6 years ago and never looked back. You can tell our scouting department for FA consist of prob 1 guy. We are the exact opposite of New England in that we ignore FA as they ignore the draft. What we really need to be doing is drafting like Green Bay where we use FAs and draft picks. That was when we were our best in Carolina.

[Happy Panther]

We are the exact opposite of New England in that we ignore FA as they ignore the draft. .

New England ignores the draft?

[Ricky Spanish]

New England ignores the draft?

seriously, they collect draft picks like pokemon

[Snake]

New England ignores the draft?

seriously, they collect draft picks like pokemon

Yea and they never really get anything out of them. Most of there draft picks are used to collect vets from other teams or just making bad picks. Its clear there scouting department is small for college and large for NFL.

[thefuzz]

If you are going to use Hurney's record use it all. Since he became GM the Panthers are 72-72 through 2010. Didn't include this year because we don't know how things will shake out. Not too bad for a guy still in his first gig.

5-4 in playoffs victories, 1 NFC Championship, 2 division titles.

That is the reality, not a snippet from the past 4 years.

Compare that to Scott Piioli (14-18) or Bruce Allen (10-22) who are considered very good GMs. And if you say it is only their third season so it is too early to tell I would only say that in Hurney's first 2 years we went (18-14).

I didn't use it all, because this isn't my thread, and the original poster only went back a few years. Hence me only going back a few years.

As for the 5-4 record, do you really think that Hurney had all that much to do with the run in 2003?

[X-Clown]

I didn't use it all, because this isn't my thread, and the original poster only went back a few years. Hence me only going back a few years.

As for the 5-4 record, do you really think that Hurney had all that much to do with the run in 2003?

Absolutely, the FA signings of Jake and Stephen davis ( both who were guys no one wanted) along with proehl were keys to that run.

[thefuzz]

Absolutely, the FA signings of Jake and Stephen davis ( both who were guys no one wanted) along with proehl were keys to that run.

Very good call. However, we have to remember that we are many many seasons since that run.

[Upper Deck West End Zone]

I'm going to give MH the benefit of the doubt and say he's average/mediocre/middle of the pack. Whatever.

The results on the field have been mediocre--at best. MH has a body of work now and so it's clear he's mediocre.

Why do we pay to watch the team? To watch middle-of-the-road football? To yell, 'let's be average!'

I don't think so. We expect the organization to strive to win a Super Bowl and be part of the conversation every preseason. At first, Jerry hired a top quality front office. But Jerry annoyed Bill Polian by making Mark Richardson president. Since then, the front office has been...mediocre. And they made huge mistakes immediately. Sean Gilbert. Letting Kerry Collins walk out the door without even a trade. Etc.

When John Fox was 'let go' I was shocked MH wasn't kicked out as well. The NFL is very much about 'what have you done for me lately?' and MH has been awful--especially in the last few years. MH made a number of 'rookie' mistakes. In fact, if I did my job like MH does his, all my clients would fire me. What happens to you if you're average and don't get the job done?

It's easy to target MH and he should be targeted but the real problem is the owner who believes, for whatever reason, that MH is one of the best GMs. If I ever meet Jerry, I will ask him if he believes, based on actual results, if MH is the best GM in the league. If Jerry says 'yes' then we're toast for a long time. If Jerry says, 'no' then I will wonder why MH is still around.

Yes--the grass is always greener on the other side and there's always a risk that a new GM would be the same as MH or worse but I have to believe there's a young FO assistant somewhere who would be significantly better than MH.

But if you want to blame someone for poor drafting and personnel moves, blame Jerry. He believes MH is top quality when MH is mediocre--at best.

Remember--if you produced the same results MH produced, you'd be fired. And with good reason.

[Happy Panther]

Great Post. This fanbase has been trained to accept mediocrity and it starts at the top.

[mav1234]

Remember--if you produced the same results MH produced, you'd be fired. And with good reason.

Would you? What if your employer specifically wanted you to produce the results largely how you have?

Hurney is doing literally exactly what JR wanted him to. Now, in the next couple years if we don't get results, then I think Hurney's job is in jeopardy, because Hurney picked this coach, this quarterback, and this entire team pretty much, and if it fails to produce it's on him.

But JR basically gave him a free pass for the last few years. Having actually talked to JR about the subject of personnel moves when he responded to an email, I would be absolutely astonished if Hurney lost his job any time in the next two years, because going into 2009 JR decided to give Fox "one last chance." After that, they exploded the roster so they knew some of what they had for the next coach in terms of youth.

I agree with what Happy Panther said, this all starts at the top.

edit: Also, I don't know the validity of it, but some have claimed that JR himself was calling the shots on the Armanti trade. I have not seen evidence of this and if anyone does I'd like to see it, but that was a common rumor around here the last couple years.

[thefuzz]

Would you? What if your employer specifically wanted you to produce the results largely how you have?

Hurney is doing literally exactly what JR wanted him to. Now, in the next couple years if we don't get results, then I think Hurney's job is in jeopardy, because Hurney picked this coach, this quarterback, and this entire team pretty much, and if it fails to produce it's on him.

But JR basically gave him a free pass for the last few years. Having actually talked to JR about the subject of personnel moves when he responded to an email, I would be absolutely astonished if Hurney lost his job any time in the next two years, because going into 2009 JR decided to give Fox "one last chance." After that, they exploded the roster so they knew some of what they had for the next coach in terms of youth.

I agree with what Happy Panther said, this all starts at the top.

edit: Also, I don't know the validity of it, but some have claimed that JR himself was calling the shots on the Armanti trade. I have not seen evidence of this and if anyone does I'd like to see it, but that was a common rumor around here the last couple years.

Owners are not talent evaluators, at least for the most part, so I would hope that JR had nothing to do with the AE mudhole.

[Upper Deck West End Zone]

Would you? What if your employer specifically wanted you to produce the results largely how you have?

I would. My clients measure the results my work produces.