Delhomme Extension?

[Bama Panther]

But do you have any evidence to support that John Fox believes that?

There is evidence to suggest that he doesn't.

No. I am not debating that. I have no doubt in my mind that John Fox feels that Jake is the best thing for the Panthers. However, he also felt Deshaun Foster was the best RB for the Panthers last year.

I am not arguing that Fox will make a change. I am arguing that fans who feel Fox should make a change have some good ground to stand on.

[Mr. Scot]

Then there is the misunderstanding. You think Delhomme is done, Fox doesn't. You accept what it is, we don't. Doesn't mean you're wrong for that, its just that this is a message board and we like to express what we feel. I too think Delhomme is done and that Fox is going to ride this horse till it drops dead. But Im still going to express that Fox and Hurney are dumb for that and that Delhomme is a horrible QB.

I thought he was done based on the fact that the team would lose faith in him. There's been no evidence to suggest that's happened (and theory doesn't count as evidence).

Were it my decision, I might handle it differently, but it's not. And given that I've never actually worked for an NFL team, my opinion doesn't count anymore than any other fan.

As I've said before, I'm glad we have a front office that doesn't listen to fan opinion, and I stand by that even when I disagree with them.

[KillerKat]

I thought he was done based on the fact that the team would lose faith in him. There's been no evidence to suggest that's happened (and theory doesn't count as evidence).

Were it my decision, I might handle it differently, but it's not. And given that I've never actually worked for an NFL team, my opinion doesn't count anymore than any other fan.

As I've said before, I'm glad we have a front office that doesn't listen to fan opinion, and I stand by that even when I disagree with them.

Then dont criticise those that have an actual opinion that they formed themselves instead of going along like a robot.

[Skew]

Then dont criticise those that have an actual opinion that they formed themselves instead of going along like a robot.

[Mr. Scot]

No. I am not debating that. I have no doubt in my mind that John Fox feels that Jake is the best thing for the Panthers. However, he also felt Deshaun Foster was the best RB for the Panthers last year.

I am not arguing that Fox will make a change. I am arguing that fans who feel Fox should make a change have some good ground to stand on.

But then the same question applies. In the real world, who do you replace him with?

My choice would be Josh McCown, and I think the Panthers could conceivably do that in the real world if Delhomme were to be let go (something which now seems highly unlikely).

In 2003, the team was still "building" and Fox was only in his second year as coach. Now the team and the Fox philosophy are established, so unless you're ready to go into "rebuilding" you have to have a viable option for a replacement.

I could conceivably see McCown as viable. Outside options, though? I don't see a thing.

[frash.exe]

In a word, yes. Why on earth would a team knowingly make a move that makes them worse?

So, based on your experience, the Giants should never have pursued Eli Manning, the Chargers should never have pursued Phillip Rivers, the Steelers should never have drafted Ben Roethlisberger, the Falcons should never have drafted Matt Ryan, and so on so forth just because the teams were never 100% sure that these guys were going to be successes at the pro level because they have never proven themselves at the pro level, especially the Giants, who later signed Kurt Warner to their roster.

Do you really think those situations compare at all?

Favre was in his annual "retire/not retire" mode and the team was tired of it. Any comparison here? With regard to Rodgers, he had been sitting behind Favre learning the system for several seasons and the team felt he was primed to be a starter. Do we have anyone like that?

no, because we willingly chose not to get one. Like it or not this team has had it's chances. Favre never officially said it was his last game that far back anyway, IIRC he didn't comment about it after that playoff loss to Philadelphia but most of the speculation was fueled by the media. It had not gotten that out of hand at that point to where he was filing for retirement and 3 months later asks to be re-instated.

Bottom line: You wrote all of that to essentially say that you don't have a name for a QB available right now that's an upgrade over Delhomme. Correct?

You know, maybe those falcon fans, stupid as they are, did have a point about Carologic. No team goes out there in a press conference before FA/Draft, and says that one person out there will be pursued by them and they are sure they will be an upgrade over what they have now.

like it or not most NFL organizations disagree with you, and will consider spending money/time on QB is a necessary risk, even if it doesn't pan out as often as anybody would like. You've built yourself an argument that you consider conventional philosophy that no established organization believes in.

[Nu Guns]

Well said Rage !!

[Mr. Scot]

So, based on your experience, the Giants should never have pursued Eli Manning, the Chargers should never have pursued Phillip Rivers, the Steelers should never have drafted Ben Roethlisberger, the Falcons should never have drafted Matt Ryan, and so on so forth just because the teams were never 100% sure that these guys were going to be successes at the pro level because they have never proven themselves at the pro level, especially the Giants, who later signed Kurt Warner to their roster.

None of the organizations you're talking about are the Panthers.

It's been cited by more than one source that this team does not believe in the "franchise QB" model and they don't believe in drafting QBs with high picks because they take too long to develop. They prefer instead to use first round picks on guys that can make instant impact. Murph printed the quotes from Marty Hurney that said as much just a short time ago.

Unless you're expecting the team to suddenly shift philosophy this offseason, none of what you said here has any relevance to the Panthers.

no, because we willingly chose not to get one. Like it or not this team has had it's chances. Favre never officially said it was his last game that far back anyway, IIRC he didn't comment about it after that playoff loss to Philadelphia but most of the speculation was fueled by the media. It had not gotten that out of hand at that point to where he was filing for retirement and 3 months later asks to be re-instated.

Not entirely accurate.

The team does have a QB that, like Aaron Rodgers, is learning the system from his rookie year on. Hence, why I still think Matt Moore is the future. The problem is that Moore likely isn't ready now. He's not as far along as Rodgers was when he got the start. So for this season, he's not a viable option.

You know, maybe those falcon fans, stupid as they are, did have a point about Carologic. No team goes out there in a press conference before FA/Draft, and says that one person out there will be pursued by them and they are sure they will be an upgrade over what they have now.

No, but there are plenty of teams that go out and say "He's our starter, period. We are not looking for change." The Panthers have done this more than once, and it's yet to play out differently. Yet on an annual basis fans think "maybe..."

like it or not most NFL organizations disagree with you, and will consider spending money/time on QB is a necessary risk, even if it doesn't pan out as often as anybody would like. You've built yourself an argument that you consider conventional philosophy that no established organization believes in.

It's not me they're disagreeing with. See, I do believe in taking rookie QBs with high picks and developing them. But the Panthers don't, and they aren't the only team that prefers going with mid-level veterans over unproven rookies.

So I'll ask again, knowing that the Panthers don't buy into the "franchise" model, they don't want to go with a rookie starter and prefer only to go with mid-level free agent QBs, can you name someone out there now that can be credibly suggested as an upgrade over Delhomme? Yes or no?

[Nu Guns]

So I'll ask again, knowing that the Panthers don't buy into the "franchise" model, they don't want to go with a rookie starter and prefer only to go with mid-level free agent QBs, can you name someone out there now that can be credibly suggested as an upgrade over Delhomme? Yes or no?

[Mr. Scot]

JAY CUTLER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Previously discussed here and here.

It's not going to happen, and not everyone is convinced it would even be a good idea.

Heck, the Vikings braintrust looked into that option, but some of them would rather go with Travaris Jackson and Sage Rosenfels.

[Nu Guns]

Previously discussed here and here.

It's not going to happen, and not everyone is convinced it even should.

I know it has been discussed, but it answers your question. Panthers do not like to draft QB'S , so there is the free agent who has been PLEADING tp get out of Denver. Sadly, I think as long as we keep Hurney,Fox and Jake the Panthers will always be a really good team-just not good enough .

[Mr. Scot]

I know it has been discussed, but it answers your question. Panthers do not like to draft QB'S , so there is the free agent who has been PLEADING tp get out of Denver. Sadly, I think as long as we keep Hurney,Fox and Jake the Panthers will always be a really good team-just not good enough .

It only answers the question if you throw the real world out the window.

The Panthers prefer mid-level free agent QBs and do not subscribe to the franchise QB model. Throw in that there is no indication Jay Cutler could be obtained with anything the Panthers would be willing to give up short of seriously mortgaging the future and hamstringing our defense.

Would you do all of that just to get Cutler?

I wouldn't.

[frash.exe]

None of the organizations you're talking about are the Panthers.

It's been cited by more than one source that this team does not believe in the "franchise QB" model and they don't believe in drafting QBs with high picks because they take too long to develop. They prefer instead to use first round picks on guys that can make instant impact. Murph printed the quotes from Marty Hurney that said as much just a short time ago.

Unless you're expecting the team to suddenly shift philosophy this offseason, none of what you said here has any relevance to the Panthers.

Yes, this is the same organization, correct me if I'm wrong, that says that they don't believe in drafting a QB high because "they take too long to develop" but will willingly select a talented RB and give him limited playing time for two years before he becomes the feature guy. This is the same team that drafts Thomas Davis with the 14th overall pick and uses him as a utility LB/safety his rookie year, but we don't like to work with high picks to gradually develop them over time.

Not entirely accurate.

The team does have a QB that, like Aaron Rodgers, is learning the system from his rookie year on. Hence, why I still think Matt Moore is the future. The problem is that Moore likely isn't ready now. He's not as far along as Rodgers was when he got the start. So for this season, he's not a viable option.

Matt Moore is nowhere near as talented nor has as good a head on his shoulders as Aaron Rodgers. To use him in the same vain as Rodgers is a reach.

It's not me they're disagreeing with. See, I do believe in taking rookie QBs with high picks and developing them. But the Panthers don't, and they aren't the only team that prefers going with mid-level veterans over unproven rookies.

At first you told me a team needs a 100% upgrade in order to make an investment and then you tell me you believe in taking QBs with high picks. So how do you bridge those two claims? Even I realize that it's a risk, but a necessary one. The Panthers don't probably because the shot in the dark that became Jake Delhomme convinced them that they can just grab any low level guy and they have a decent chance of panning out.

Whatever teams don't think that mid-level veterans probably aren't making much noise because the last 4 superbowl victors had high pick QBs under center, and people like Tom Brady are clearly an exception, not the rule.

So I'll ask again, knowing that the Panthers don't buy into the "franchise" model, they don't want to go with a rookie starter and prefer only to go with mid-level free agent QBs, can you name someone out there now that can be credibly suggested as an upgrade over Delhomme? Yes or no?

NO, but by no means is their philosophy going to pull the wool over my eyes. Their philosophy is probably destined to hinder the Panthers' potential until it changes.

[Skew]

I know it has been discussed, but it answers your question. Panthers do not like to draft QB'S , so there is the free agent who has been PLEADING tp get out of Denver. Sadly, I think as long as we keep Hurney,Fox and Jake the Panthers will always be a really good team-just not good enough .

I'll make it simple for you.

Jake winning record>>>>>>>>Cutler winning record

Cutler

Not

Answer