Week 6 ESPN QBR Ratings Are Out

[adub2b23]

Which is why I continue to use the word accuracy. Accuracy. Not completion % which is heavily dependent on receivers, defenses, etc. Accuracy, as in even when you have no pressure, how accurate are you at delivering the ball. As in I'm sitting on an empty football field by myself and trying to hit a target.....that's accuracy. It has less to do with who you play and it has more to do with just being accurate with your throw. Your innate throwing ability and ball delivery mechanics.

But if you insist on talking about completion % and QB rating, what about Dalton? He's a rookie too. Is he not affected by film? Fact is Cam's best game was his first game. He has yet to have a better game and we are in week 6.

Newton

Week 1 64%

week 2 60%

week 3 53%

week 4 58%

week 5 51%

week 6 60%

Dalton

week 1 66%

week 2 65%

week 3 53%

week 4 50%

week 5 63%

week 6 78%

We get to play Indy as well. If his accuracy doesn't improve I bet you money he will never reach a 78% completion percentage even against that pooty ass defense because the main reason why he's completion % is so low, is his accuracy, not the defenses we are playing.

People keep wanting to point fingers at Naanee, or defense or whatever. Well Naanee has improved. Cam has not. Our running game has improved. Cam has not. Our special teams have improved. Cam has not. Even our defense has improved. Cam has not.

Every area of our team has improved since week 1, with the exception of our QB. People just love to say "oh yeah I see improvement" because you're supposed to, or it sounds good or it's what you want to see. But it's not reality. Sorry.

Oh and one more thing. The Patriots have the 32nd ranked defense. Green Bay are 23rd. The Bears are 28th. The Falcons are 22nd. The Saints are 17th. Tampa bay are 25th. We are ranked 16th and have been middle of the pack ALL YEAR! How do some of you keep overlooking these facts? It's our defense that's keeping us from winning? Really? Wow....what a revelation! Bullshit.

So not only are the top 2 teams in the NFL currently sporting the worst defenses in the NFL, but we have the best damn defense in our division. But keep ignoring the big elephant in the corner of the room. People keep looking for scape goats: Naanee, defense, special teams. Nobody wants to handle these numbers. We have a middle of the pack defense and our issue has been offense all year and the fact our QB has not been able to win games in the 4th quarter. But everyone keeps wanting to point fingers everywhere else, except at the real issue.

To be frank, I don't agree with anything you say and from the looks of it you are on your own. Saying our defense is keeping us in the game is just being ignorant. you must be watching a completely different game than everyone else, because I would bet that our team has the fewest 3 and outs on defense. I do not believe cam has regressed. You must seriously have something against him, because I don't understand the hate you are giving him. IMO he was very accurate last game, despite the flukey picks

[ProBowler]

To be frank, I don't agree with anything you say and from the looks of it you are on your own. Saying our defense is keeping us in the game is just being ignorant. you must be watching a completely different game than everyone else, because I would bet that our team has the fewest 3 and outs on defense. I do not believe cam has regressed. You must seriously have something against him, because I don't understand the hate you are giving him. IMO he was very accurate last game, despite the flukey picks

From the other thread.

Points scored by us in the 4th:

Saints: 0

Falcons: 0

Arizona: 0

Bears: 6(they scored 10 and we got ours in garbage time). Our D let us down, but it was also the 2 score difference that made it easy for Cam to get any points late.

Green bay: 7(they also scored 7 and again same story: we were down by 2 scores).

With the exception of the Jaguars game Cam has yet to put this team in a position to score any points in the 4th quarter when we are not down by more than 1 score.

Every time this O had the chance to put the game away, it failed. I don't care how good your Defense is, if your offense can't improve the above you will continue losing. We have yet to be UP in the 4th quarter for us to blame the loss on our defense. It's not that our defense plays any worse in the 4th quarter....it's our offense that does.

Enough said. I have nothing personal against him. My only problem with him is the fact he's not scoring points in the 4th to win the game and he has accuracy issues. I don't care if I'm on my own. I'd rather be on my own and face the real issue than be part of the rose colored glasses crowd that keeps looking for scapegoats instead of looking at the real problem. You can't win like that, and it has more to do with Cam and our offense, than our defense. Our D gives the same amount of points away in the 4th as they do the rest of the game. Our O does not score the same amount of points in the 4th as they do in the rest of the game. They actually have scored 0 points when they had a chance to win. My issue is with the big fat 0.

[adub2b23]

From the other thread.

Points scored by us in the 4th:

Saints: 0

Falcons: 0

Arizona: 0

Bears: 6(they scored 10 and we got ours in garbage time). Our D let us down, but it was also the 2 score difference that made it easy for Cam to get any points late.

Green bay: 7(they also scored 7 and again same story: we were down by 2 scores).

With the exception of the Jaguars game Cam has yet to put this team in a position to score any points in the 4th quarter when we are not down by more than 1 score.

Every time this O had the chance to put the game away, it failed. I don't care how good your Defense is, if your offense can't improve the above you will continue losing. We have yet to be UP in the 4th quarter for us to blame the loss on our defense. It's not that our defense plays any worse in the 4th quarter....it's our offense that does.

Enough said. I have nothing personal against him. My only problem with him is the fact he's not scoring points in the 4th to win the game and he has accuracy issues. I don't care if I'm on my own. I'd rather be on my own and face the real issue than be part of the rose colored glasses crowd that keeps looking for scapegoats instead of looking at the real problem. You can't win like that, and it has more to do with Cam and our offense, than our defense. Our D gives the same amount of points away in the 4th as they do the rest of the game. Our O does not score the same amount of points in the 4th as they do in the rest of the game. They actually have scored 0 points when they had a chance to win. My issue is with the big fat 0.

I agree with you about not scoring points when we have a chance to put the game away. I believe we had the opportunity to go up 24-14 and went 3 and out because of a holding call putting us at 1-20. I don't fault cam for alot of the 4th quarter blunders, because the coaches have made some questionable play calls..however it is the teams job to execute regardless. We receive way too many penalties to win games so far..2 pi calls to put the ball at the 1, several holding calls and not to mention burning timeouts due to 12 men on the field.

[ProBowler]

You don't fault Cam for being inaccurate. You don't fault Cam for having one of the worst completion % in the NFL, lower than even Andy Dalton. You don't fault Cam for throwing pics. You don't fault Cam for not being able to drive down the field in the 4th quarter. You find fault in everybody else but Cam.

All of this is excused on account of him being a rookie? Ok fine, he's excused, but let's not ignore the fact that the "rookie" thing is just an excuse. That doesn't change the fact the he is the reason why those things are happening and that's the main reason we don't win games in the end. Excused or not, it is him and this O that can't finish. They're the ones with the big goose egg in the 4th quarter when it counts.

[The_Mango55]

So you're fine with the D because they are just as crappy in the other 3 quarters as they are in the 4th?

I'd rather have an offense that's good for 3 quarers than a D that's bad for 4.

[PhillyB]

hey probowler, heres a newsflash for ya: cam is a rookie.

if everything that you said is a problem wasn't a problem, cam newton would be far and away the best quarterback in the league. do you truly expect our rookie quarterback that missed out on OTA's and minicamp to come into the season with no problems, no issues, nothing to work on?

your honest assessment of cam's problems are appreciated but you seem to be missing a very critical fact: he's a rookie.

[ProBowler]

Hey PhillyB , news flash: everyone is aware of this when they talk about Cam. Nobody in the NFL world doesn't know this. It's so annoying. Everyone understands Cam is a fuging rookie when they talk about him. The point still remains, is his inability to score any points in the 4th the main reason why we can't win? Yes if you ask me. We score 0 points in 3 games in the 4th and 0 points when it mattered in all games.

So even as a rookie, has he shown improvement overall since the first game? Not really. Has his accuracy improved? Nope. And as far as rating? He's actually dropped since his first game by any measurable calculations. Even when compared to guys like Dalton, another rookie, who has have moved up in rankings(He's 17th and with 84.3% and Cam's now down to 25th at 78.3%) and is doing a better job game managing and not making costly mistakes. He's remained the same if you just watch him with your own eyes missing these crazy passes. He's still doing his thing with his legs and making plays just like he did his first game, but as far as actual passing goes, and ball delivery as well as overall game managing and finishing the games, he has not improved.

Not saying he won't, but so far, even when compared to his peers, he's behind the learning curve and its costing us games. Blaine Gabbert looks worse but he was also not a day 1 starter and his team is not even close to ours as far as being able to compete, not to mention similar situation we were in with Fox last year. Dalton, however, is in a similar situation offensively although I honestly feel we're more talented than Cincinnati on offense, and he's doing better with what he has, even though he may be less talented. He's currently a better QB when it comes to what matters....winning and not costing his team games!

If you don't like completion percentages how about we compare passer ratings between two rookies?

Dalton

week 1 111.5

week 2 85.3

week 3 64.4

week 4 40.8

week 5 107.0

week 6 102.4

Newton

week 1 110.4

week 2 72.0

week 3 75.4

week 4 83.1

week 5 83.3

week 6 44.6

Ok but the third pick doesn't count so it made his stats look worse and neither does the rushing TD which would have helped him.....he'd still be at 60-70 this past Sunday without that third pick and the TD.

Out of 6 games one guy has shown the ability to play a complete game as an NFL QB 3 times, and win, and Cam's only done it once, his first game. He's had 2 back to back games, his most recent ones with a QB rating higher than 100. That shows me improvement.

I don't care if Cam ever throws for 400 yards again, but if he's to be considered a good QB, he needs to start putting up some 100's or higher on his resume. He hasn't done it since week 1. I continue to expect the 44, or 75 ratings from time to time, but you still have to expect that 100 pop up from time to time too.

He's right about one thing this time after the loss. It's time to point the finger at himself too and instead of getting sad or depressed, get angry about it and get better.

[Pox 08]

Do we really have someone bitching about Newton? After just 6 games?

[ProBowler]

I'm not bitching, just pointing the finger where it belongs because it keeps being pointed everywhere else but him when it comes to winning and who is costing us games and that's just annoying and hypocritical because his inability to score 4th quarter points and finish the game is actually the main reasons we're losing.....but...just 6 games? First of all it's 10 games if you include pre-season, which do count towards experience but didn't Panther fans bitch about Moore after just 1 game last year because of his 4th quarter pick? Wasn't he benched after 2 because of back to back 4th quarter pics that kept us from winning those games? Even though he had a string of back to back wins before that. And how many did Clausen get before everyone started bitching?

Don't get me wrong, neither one of those guys measure up to Cam, but sooner or later Cam needs to be held accountable for the losses, not just the rest of the team even if he has an excuse of being a rookie. Being a rookie gives him a break with mistakes, but it doesn't mean he's not one of the main reasons for our losses. It also doesn't mean he's exempt from having to show improvement until 2012. So yeah he should be showing improvement after 6 games.

If being a rookie means no one can blame him for the loss than I suggest everyone stops blaming everybody else, and let's wait and see how this defense and special teams do whenever Cam decides to play a complete game. See if we still lose the game when he stops throwing 2 pics a game and starts scoring in the 4th quarter. Because at least so far I have noticed better running, better catching and better special teams. Defense is pretty much the same but they did a much better job containing Turner compared to Forte. I have not noticed better QB play compared to day 1 of the season. If the guy most responsible for the losses and showing least improvement is exempt, then the rest of the team should catch a break too. You can bitch about those sides when they get progressively worse. But so far all the other areas of this team have shown some improvement while our QB just had his worse day of the season.

[Pox 08]

Newton is a rookie that just finished his 6th game. Pointing out his flaws isn't being original, it's just being b1tchy, man. Of course he has flaws, of course he is playing like a rookie at times.

Dalton's Bengals are playing well.. I'm not sure what that has to do with the Panthers (Since some keep bringing them up).. Dalton and Cam are both in completely different systems.

[ProBowler]

Asking for heads on other sides of the team because of not winning, when your rookie is the main reason for your loss is not original either. That's also just bitching. Blaming it on the defense or special teams or our run stopping abilities while overlooking this is also just short sighted.

Expecting to see improvement from your rookie after 6 games, isn't just bitching, imo. It's a valid expectation. Observing regression is a valid concern. Every side of this team, including a rookie QB should be showing improvement. I think our special teams has come a long way in terms of execution. Our run game has also improved. Our receivers have improved, even Naanee. Our defense has remained largely the same, though I think they are doing better and not giving away the big play for a score anymore. Atlanta had to work for their points yesterday outside of the big interception in the 4th quarter and had long drives as well. Our D forced them into playing a complete game offensively. It wasn't like our D in the first few games where we gave up these huge long plays and half field thanks to our special teams. They still have trouble with the run, and tackling but they plugged the big wholes, imo. The only person that has remained largely unchanged is Cam. He's also the main reason we gave them awesome field position yesterday. Not our special teams.

Nobody talks about this though. All of a sudden the importance of turn overs and interceptions, especially 4th quarter turnovers, seems to have gone from critical when it comes to winning and losing, to an afterthought.

[The_Mango55]

Newton is the reason we're in these games in the first place. Most people don't blame a player for losing a close game they would have been blown out in if it weren't for them.

Our offense is generally doing enough to win games if the defense was able to stop people. Even if they were better at forcing field goals we would be in much better shape. The reason the D has a mediocre total yardage stat but a bottom 5 scoring D is that we can't hold teams to FG the way most other teams do. We don't stiffen up in the red zone.

[Pox 08]

Expecting some of the veterans to play better on defense is the same as bitching about a rookie qb after his 6th game?

Good to know.

[ProBowler]

I can tell you didn't really read or understand anything I said.