Week 6 ESPN QBR Ratings Are Out

[panthers55]

These discussions for the most part are fruitless. People see what they want to see. Even with that, the whole notion that you can improve or get worse from week to week is comparing apples to oranges. Each team is a separate test with different gameplanning and personnel. You really can't compare how he does versus Atlanta compared to New Orleans and they are completely different teams. You might make some comparisons between the first and second times we play the same divisional team and do some kind of home and away comparison but otherwise each game is complete on it's own.

Plus any idiot knows that Newton will struggle as teams get more film on him and better prepare for what he does. He then has to adjust to what they are doing to him and make adjustments of his own. It is a process.

[CatMan72]

Cam missed a few throws, rookie QB's do that, what's the problem?

How about we play a little defense?

[The_Mango55]

He's gotten worse week in and week out in comparison and nobody notices this. They just keep pointing to yards, which have also slowed down. He's at 58.5% right now and it would be a lot worse if it wasn't for some of the moves our receivers have made. And while that may sound great, it's not when you consider the range in the NFL typically goes from 50 to about 70(not 0-100) so it's really a 20 point scale. It's actually a pretty crappy completion percentage when you consider he was 22nd in the league last week and after yesterday he's 24th. Even Andy Dalton is at 62% and that might have something to do with taking pressure off of your rookie QB. I mentioned this last week but nobody wants to notice this

That's also why I said yesterday he's not a good match for a Coryell Air offense. You can't have a 58-60% QB trying to run this type of passing offense. You need to be above 65%. There is no upside to having an inaccurate QB throw the ball 40 times a game. Yes he's going to have a lot of yards, because they all pretty much complete over 50% of their passes, so any QB that throws that much is going to get yards, but who cares about yards? I'd rather have a QB that throws 20 times a game, but he completes 15-17 of them when it counts.

You absolutely can run an Air Coryell style offense with that type of completion percentage. You know what the prototypical Air Coryell QB Dan Fouts' career completion percentage is?

58.8

Not too far from Cam's 58.5 is it?

No you need a 60%+ completion percentage for a west coast style offense, but then again it's much easier to get a 60% completion percentage in a west coast offense.

[ProBowler]

These discussions for the most part are fruitless. People see what they want to see. Even with that, the whole notion that you can improve or get worse from week to week is comparing apples to oranges. Each team is a separate test with different gameplanning and personnel. You really can't compare how he does versus Atlanta compared to New Orleans and they are completely different teams. You might make some comparisons between the first and second times we play the same divisional team and do some kind of home and away comparison but otherwise each game is complete on it's own.

Plus any idiot knows that Newton will struggle as teams get more film on him and better prepare for what he does. He then has to adjust to what they are doing to him and make adjustments of his own. It is a process.

Which is why I continue to use the word accuracy. Accuracy. Not completion % which is heavily dependent on receivers, defenses, etc. Accuracy, as in even when you have no pressure, how accurate are you at delivering the ball. As in I'm sitting on an empty football field by myself and trying to hit a target.....that's accuracy. It has less to do with who you play and it has more to do with just being accurate with your throw. Your innate throwing ability and ball delivery mechanics.

But if you insist on talking about completion % and QB rating, what about Dalton? He's a rookie too. Is he not affected by film? Fact is Cam's best game was his first game. He has yet to have a better game and we are in week 6.

Newton

Week 1 64%

week 2 60%

week 3 53%

week 4 58%

week 5 51%

week 6 60%

Dalton

week 1 66%

week 2 65%

week 3 53%

week 4 50%

week 5 63%

week 6 78%

We get to play Indy as well. If his accuracy doesn't improve I bet you money he will never reach a 78% completion percentage even against that pooty ass defense because the main reason why he's completion % is so low, is his accuracy, not the defenses we are playing.

People keep wanting to point fingers at Naanee, or defense or whatever. Well Naanee has improved. Cam has not. Our running game has improved. Cam has not. Our special teams have improved. Cam has not. Even our defense has improved. Cam has not.

Every area of our team has improved since week 1, with the exception of our QB. People just love to say "oh yeah I see improvement" because you're supposed to, or it sounds good or it's what you want to see. But it's not reality. Sorry.

Oh and one more thing. The Patriots have the 32nd ranked defense. Green Bay are 23rd. The Bears are 28th. The Falcons are 22nd. The Saints are 17th. Tampa bay are 25th. We are ranked 16th and have been middle of the pack ALL YEAR! How do some of you keep overlooking these facts? It's our defense that's keeping us from winning? Really? Wow....what a revelation! Bullshit.

So not only are the top 2 teams in the NFL currently sporting the worst defenses in the NFL, but we have the best damn defense in our division. But keep ignoring the big elephant in the corner of the room. People keep looking for scape goats: Naanee, defense, special teams. Nobody wants to handle these numbers. We have a middle of the pack defense and our issue has been offense all year and the fact our QB has not been able to win games in the 4th quarter. But everyone keeps wanting to point fingers everywhere else, except at the real issue.

[The_Mango55]

Our defense would be adequate if they put total yards up on the scoreboard.

Our scoring defense is actually 28th

Meanwhile we're 5th in offense and 18th in scoring offense, so somewhere between very good and average.

[ProBowler]

Our defense would be adequate if they put total yards up on the scoreboard.

Our scoring defense is actually 28th

Funny how you continue to ignore everything else and you mention that...but that's an interesting point as well, and the same goes for offense. We are ranked 5th in yards but 15th in points scored. Interesting how that range is almost identical, no?

Why do you think that is?

That's because in the 4th quarter instead of us finishing the game like we are supposed to and keeping the ball out of our opponents hand, we give it right back, so instead of us getting that 7 points and finishing the game, we give it to our opponents and hope the defense can stop them. So our only chance is either tie them or lose. Instead of it being win or at worse, our opponents tie us. This happened every single game with the exception of the Jaguars game. It's the only game Cam finished and yea so far, that looks to be the fluke because of all the rain. So when we were on offense late in the game, the rain benefited the offense more than the defense.

[The_Mango55]

It's because we have trouble getting into the endzone.

Cam has one more interception than Tom Brady, but they have no trouble scoring points.

[panthers55]

Which is why I continue to use the word accuracy. Accuracy. Not completion % which is heavily dependent on receivers, defenses, etc. Accuracy, as in even when you have no pressure, how accurate are you at delivering the ball. As in I'm sitting on an empty football field by myself and trying to hit a target.....that's accuracy. It has less to do with who you play and it has more to do with just being accurate with your throw. Your innate throwing ability and ball delivery mechanics.

But if you insist on talking about completion % and QB rating, what about Dalton? He's a rookie too. Is he not affected by film? Fact is Cam's best game was his first game. He has yet to have a better game and we are in week 6.

Newton

Week 1 64%

week 2 60%

week 3 53%

week 4 58%

week 5 51%

week 6 60%

Dalton

week 1 66%

week 2 65%

week 3 53%

week 4 50%

week 5 63%

week 6 78%

We get to play Indy as well. If his accuracy doesn't improve I bet you money he will never reach a 78% completion percentage even against that pooty ass defense because the main reason why he's completion % is so low, is his accuracy, not the defenses we are playing.

People keep wanting to point fingers at Naanee, or defense or whatever. Well Naanee has improved. Cam has not. Our running game has improved. Cam has not. Our special teams have improved. Cam has not. Even our defense has improved. Cam has not.

Every area of our team has improved since week 1, with the exception of our QB. People just love to say "oh yeah I see improvement" because you're supposed to, or it sounds good or it's what you want to see. But it's not reality. Sorry.

Oh and one more thing. The Patriots have the 32nd ranked defense. Green Bay are 23rd. The Bears are 28th. The Falcons are 22nd. The Saints are 17th. Tampa bay are 25th. We are ranked 16th and have been middle of the pack ALL YEAR! How do some of you keep overlooking these facts? It's our defense that's keeping us from winning? Really? Wow....what a revelation! Bullpoo.

So not only are the top 2 teams in the NFL currently sporting the worst defenses in the NFL, but we have the best damn defense in our division. But keep ignoring the big elephant in the corner of the room. People keep looking for scape goats: Naanee, defense, special teams. Nobody wants to handle these numbers. We have a middle of the pack defense and our issue has been offense all year and the fact our QB has not been able to win games in the 4th quarter. But everyone keeps wanting to point fingers everywhere else, except at the real issue.

Accuracy varies from game to game and even within a game. What you are trying to do is look at a 6 game slice of time where Newton is a rookie who came in without adequate prep time and make conclusions based on that. It is fine to drag up all the completion percentages and then the pass defense stats from those games as comparisons but the faulty logic is your conclusions.

Does what you have shown indicate that Newton has accuracy issues?? Actually not. What we have seen is consistency issues. He makes some of the hard throws look easy and some of the easy throws look hard. He has hit some guys in stride from 50 yards out and missed some dumpoffs 3 yards from him.

Using the first 6 games of his career as indicative of anything other than the fact he is a rookie and still learning is your biggest mistake. Lets bring this back up at this point next year where we actually have enough data to measure plus Newton will no longer be a rookie.

As for measuring Dalton and Newton, once again your logic is faulty. They play in different systems with Dalton's system yielding higher completion percentages. Comparing the two does not compare apples to apples.

Until then you can argue until the cows come home but you haven't proven anything and won't until enough time has passed to make conclusions. Obviously some people here get it while others like yourself don't have a clue. Sorry but true.

If I didn't know any better I would think you are a TRD alter. :rolleyes:

[ProBowler]

Accuracy varies from game to game and even within a game. What you are trying to do is look at a 6 game slice of time where Newton is a rookie who came in without adequate prep time and make conclusions based on that. It is fine to drag up all the completion percentages and then the pass defense stats from those games as comparisons but the faulty logic is your conclusions.

Does what you have shown indicate that Newton has accuracy issues?? Actually not. What we have seen is consistency issues. He makes some of the hard throws look easy and some of the easy throws look hard. He has hit some guys in stride from 50 yards out and missed some dumpoffs 3 yards from him.

Using the first 6 games of his career as indicative of anything other than the fact he is a rookie and still learning is your biggest mistake. Lets bring this back up at this point next year where we actually have enough data to measure plus Newton will no longer be a rookie.

As for measuring Dalton and Newton, once again your logic is faulty. They play in different systems with Dalton's system yielding higher completion percentages. Comparing the two does not compare apples to apples.

Until then you can argue until the cows come home but you haven't proven anything and won't until enough time has passed to make conclusions. Obviously some people here get it while others like yourself don't have a clue. Sorry but true.

If I didn't know any better I would think you are a TRD alter. :rolleyes:

You'd have a point, if I used that to show accuracy issues. I used it because someone else keep talking about completion percentage. Again, accuracy has just as much to do with how you complete passes as it does with completion percentage. You'd also have a point if Andy Dalton wasn't a rookie. And you'd also have a point if Cam Newton didn't have the same issue in college. It was documented in college and out of 10 total games played so far this year, the only one where he showed anything different was Arizona. His accuracy has continued to remain erratic and sub-par. No improvement.

[The_Mango55]

The problem you have with your argument, Probowler, is that "Accuracy" is a pretty subjective measurement.

Completion percentage is the standard acceptable measurement of accuracy, and his is fine for the offensive system we're running. Not ideal obviously, but adequate.

[panthers55]

You'd have a point, if I used that to show accuracy issues. I used it because someone else keep talking about completion percentage. Again, accuracy has just as much to do with how you complete passes as it does with completion percentage. You'd also have a point if Andy Dalton wasn't a rookie. And you'd also have a point if Cam Newton didn't have the same issue in college. It was documented in college and out of 10 total games played so far this year, the only one where he showed anything different was Arizona. His accuracy has continued to remain erratic and sub-par. No improvement.

You could have a point if there was a simple stat to show accuracy but there isn't. Accuracy is a function of several things including the receiver and the quarterback being on the same page which at times hasn't happened. Do you know when a receiver comes out of the break and the ball is delivered if the receiver ran the right route at the right depth? Do you know other than a badly throw ball to a wide open receiver where the problem lies. No doubt Newton can work on his accuracy but it really isn';t the problem you make it out to be.

You could have a point if Dalton and Newton were playing in similar offenses but they aren't.

You could have a point if he was inaccurate in college but he actually almost completed 68% of his passes. If you had said that he needs to work on throwing to a spot and working on timing routes instead of throwing to a receiver and waiting for them to be wide open, you would be making a valid point.

Again your conclusions are faulty. He is improving his footwork, his ability to read defense, and his technique on timing routes. Is he a work in progress? Absolutely. Is he regressing or getting worse?? No, he is developing and learning as a rookie. This is a normal progression that you have to go through.

[ProBowler]

I have a point because I have eyes. Completion % is between QB receivers and defenses. Accuracy is mainly the QB. My eyes don't fool me and I have seen it every game.

He may be improving his ability to read defenses, but his accuracy has not improved. When he has another game where he's hitting every target and makes it easy for receivers instead of trying to get them killed or even if he has a poor completion percentage but it's because of dropped passes or slips by the receivers or too much pressure, then you can keep talking that mess. In the mean time, I'm still waiting to see him stop throwing high balls, short passes that fall to receivers feet, or missing guys that are 5 yards away.

When this stops, then accuracy has improved. That's the only tracking I need...my own eyes.

[ProBowler]

It's because we have trouble getting into the endzone.

Cam has one more interception than Tom Brady, but they have no trouble scoring points.

Of course and most of that falls on Cam. Tom Brady's accuracy and clutch ability trumps Cam's and that's to be expected. So does Rodgers. So does Brees's. They are around 70% completion percentage. But again, interceptions, completion % and accuracy: apples and oranges.

The biggest difference between these guys is that in the 4th quarter guys like Brady tend to focus even more and get even more accurate when the game is on the line. They block out everything and go into a zone. Did you see Brady's winning TD yesterday? Hair pin throw with the defender's arms wrapped around the receiver. But Brady placed it exactly where it needed to be.

It's all about finishing. And at least so far, Cam has not shown this and he also has shown no improvement in this area.

Compare Cam's 4th quarter QB stats with the rest of the quarters. It's the complete opposite. Cam's stunk it up every single time there was pressure to finish and put teams away. Every time. And the only reason we won our Jacksonville game was thanks to our defense. They did actually manage to stop them and run out the clock...but we were also UP! We haven't been in that situation in any other game in the 4th quarter.

If you want your defenses to finish games, you need to be up on points, not tied or losing. When you are down or tied you can't win without offense. You just can't unless you pray for a pick 6 or safety. That's the only way. It's just reality. You need to score more points at the end to win. Every sport is the same. There are few blowouts compared to the number of games that come down to the wire.

[The_Mango55]

Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees are better than Cam Newton... This is mind blowing analysis here folks.

We're 16th in 4th quarter points per game, so exactly average.