Just sitting here watching Fua and McClain get abused.

[CatMan72]

So we're thinking about trading a 4th or 5th round pick for a 30 year old WR (Lloyd), but not a DT?

http://reederstake.freedomblogging.com/2011/10/13/11133/11133/

I'm not against trading for Lloyd, but is this a win now or win later move?

[Woodie]

So we're thinking about trading a 4th or 5th round pick for a 30 year old WR (Lloyd), but not a DT?

http://reederstake.freedomblogging.com/2011/10/13/11133/11133/

I'm not against trading for Lloyd, but is this a win now or win later move?

It's an "if we can improve the team, lets improve it" move.

It's all fine and dandy to sit here and say we should trade for a DT, but the problem is there isn't one to trade for. Nobody has a starting level DT on the trading block at the moment (and teams don't want to trade their effective depth...not this deep into the season). So while I'm sure the team would love to get a solid vet DT, their just isn't one to be had.

And unfortunately, no amount of wishing or hoping is going to change that.

[CatMan72]

It's an "if we can improve the team, lets improve it" move.

It's all fine and dandy to sit here and say we should trade for a DT, but the problem is there isn't one to trade for. Nobody has a starting level DT on the trading block at the moment (and teams don't want to trade their effective depth...not this deep into the season). So while I'm sure the team would love to get a solid vet DT, their just isn't one to be had.

And unfortunately, no amount of wishing or hoping is going to change that.

And how do we know this?

[Woodie]

And how do we know this?

Common sense and basic football understanding.

Let me ask you this, give me a name of one solid DT that we could reasonable get...without basing it on hope or dreams. We could sit here and say "I'm sure we could get (fill in the blank), he's a solid backup who would be a clear upgrade to what we have." But if he's such a valuable asset, he's probably already a key component in his team's rotation, in which case the team most likely would not be willing to give him up with anything less than a stupid offer. And if he's not, then he's probably not that much of an upgrade to what we already have, and likely not worth what it would take to get him.

The truth is that at this point in the season, teams don't want to trade usable assets unless they are a cancer, injured, or they can rape some team into way overpaying. Right now, every bad team still has hopes of turning it around and making the playoffs, and every good team is working hard to keep their place. Either way, nobody want's to give up a solid contributor while they believe they are still in the hunt for the playoffs...particularly when there is no replacement available to them. In other words, no GM is going to intentionally make their team worse for only a mid-late round pick or some mediocre player.

My point is that there isn't anyone. You know it as well as I do, but you just want to see better production from our DT's and simply wish there was a way to improve it. Believe me, I understand and agree. However, logically, we all know there really isn't anyone we can reasonable get.

[Iceberg Slim]

Common sense and basic football understanding.

Let me ask you this, give me a name of one solid DT that we could reasonable get...without basing it on hope or dreams. We could sit here and say "I'm sure we could get (fill in the blank), he's a solid backup who would be a clear upgrade to what we have." But if he's such a valuable asset, he's probably already a key component in his team's rotation, in which case the team most likely would not be willing to give him up with anything less than a stupid offer. And if he's not, then he's probably not that much of an upgrade to what we already have, and likely not worth what it would take to get him.

The truth is that at this point in the season, teams don't want to trade usable assets unless they are a cancer, injured, or they can rape some team into way overpaying. Right now, every bad team still has hopes of turning it around and making the playoffs, and every good team is working hard to keep their place. Either way, nobody want's to give up a solid contributor while they believe they are still in the hunt for the playoffs...particularly when there is no replacement available to them. In other words, no GM is going to intentionally make their team worse for only a mid-late round pick or some mediocre player.

My point is that there isn't anyone. You know it as well as I do, but you just want to see better production from our DT's and simply wish there was a way to improve it. Believe me, I understand and agree. However, logically, we all know there really isn't anyone we can reasonable get.

Well, there is this guy......

[SnowPanther]

Do fans get a refund for a throwaway season?

No, but when we're perennially winning 12 games a year after another high core player draft pick does the team get to raise prices dramatically in succession every single year?

[SnowPanther]

And how do we know this?

Team's rarely, if ever, dump highly talented players at the trade deadline, even if the team is doing horrible. One of the main reasons is that highly talented player more than likely still has a few years and big money attached to the contract, including hefty workout and roster bonuses. And if the player is approaching a contract year, they pretty much demand to have a new long term deal in place to be moved. No team wants to be on the hook for that sort of thing, let alone Jerry Richardson who has just thrown boatloads of money to resign key players this off-season.

[CatMan72]

Common sense and basic football understanding.

Let me ask you this, give me a name of one solid DT that we could reasonable get...without basing it on hope or dreams. We could sit here and say "I'm sure we could get (fill in the blank), he's a solid backup who would be a clear upgrade to what we have." But if he's such a valuable asset, he's probably already a key component in his team's rotation, in which case the team most likely would not be willing to give him up with anything less than a stupid offer. And if he's not, then he's probably not that much of an upgrade to what we already have, and likely not worth what it would take to get him.

The truth is that at this point in the season, teams don't want to trade usable assets unless they are a cancer, injured, or they can rape some team into way overpaying. Right now, every bad team still has hopes of turning it around and making the playoffs, and every good team is working hard to keep their place. Either way, nobody want's to give up a solid contributor while they believe they are still in the hunt for the playoffs...particularly when there is no replacement available to them. In other words, no GM is going to intentionally make their team worse for only a mid-late round pick or some mediocre player.

My point is that there isn't anyone. You know it as well as I do, but you just want to see better production from our DT's and simply wish there was a way to improve it. Believe me, I understand and agree. However, logically, we all know there really isn't anyone we can reasonable get.

LOL, okay... your arguing as if you know for a fact that right now a decent DT is not available for trade for the right amount of compensation when you couldn't possibly know this for a fact.

I agree with your basic point, teams are not looking to trade valuable assets for anything less than high compensation, but I have to think there's a DT out there that would be A) better than what we have (there's a lot of room for improvement) and B) playing on a team that would rather have the draft pick and/or a good young prospect like Goodson at HB.

At the end of the day we're probably stuck with what we have at DT right now, we shouldn't have put ourselves in this position to begin with... going into a season with not much more than 2 rookie DT's is foolish and we're paying for it. The minute Ron Edwards went down we should have aggressively pursued a replacement, Aubrayo Franklin was available at the time an was rated as the 2nd best run stuffing DT in the NFL last year by PFF, so we should have been all over him, but instead we sat and watched the Saints sign him.

It just drives me crazy to sit here every Sunday and watch our DT's get blown off the LOS down after down... like the Saints game where we got to watch our lead slip away because we couldn't put any pressure on Brees and couldn't stuff a 3 and 1 rushing attempt that ultimately sealed our fate.

[CatMan72]

Team's rarely, if ever, dump highly talented players at the trade deadline, even if the team is doing horrible. One of the main reasons is that highly talented player more than likely still has a few years and big money attached to the contract, including hefty workout and roster bonuses. And if the player is approaching a contract year, they pretty much demand to have a new long term deal in place to be moved. No team wants to be on the hook for that sort of thing, let alone Jerry Richardson who has just thrown boatloads of money to resign key players this off-season.

Thing is, I'm not talking about highly talented players... I'm talking about something better than what we've got.

[CPF4LIFE]

Everybody says we will be "fine" when Gettis comes back, but we also have Ron Edwards that went down who is a proven player at DT. So why cant we feel the same way about the DT situation? At the end of the day I dont think DT is any bigger than WR far as us losing games. We just gotta learn how to finish games, and the coaches have step up as well. Thats all.

[CatMan72]

Everybody says we will be "fine" when Gettis comes back, but we also have Ron Edwards that went down who is a proven player at DT. So why cant we feel the same way about the DT situation? At the end of the day I dont think DT is any bigger than WR far as us losing games. We just gotta learn how to finish games, and the coaches have step up as well. Thats all.

Because we have the 5th best passing offense and the 27th worst rushing defense.

[Kurb]

Yeah, actually I pay the organization for extra wins before they even get them every year and then get a sorry we're a bad organization refund check in January. So.. Shut your stupid little snide mouth.

Awwwwww

I think you are paying for tickets.

But if you are paying them for wins, I suggest you either ask for a refund, or start giving them some extra for incentive.

[Woodie]

LOL, okay... your arguing as if you know for a fact that right now a decent DT is not available for trade for the right amount of compensation when you couldn't possibly know this for a fact.

I agree with your basic point, teams are not looking to trade valuable assets for anything less than high compensation, but I have to think there's a DT out there that would be A) better than what we have (there's a lot of room for improvement) and B) playing on a team that would rather have the draft pick and/or a good young prospect like Goodson at HB.

At the end of the day we're probably stuck with what we have at DT right now, we shouldn't have put ourselves in this position to begin with... going into a season with not much more than 2 rookie DT's is foolish and we're paying for it. The minute Ron Edwards went down we should have aggressively pursued a replacement, Aubrayo Franklin was available at the time an was rated as the 2nd best run stuffing DT in the NFL last year by PFF, so we should have been all over him, but instead we sat and watched the Saints sign him.

It just drives me crazy to sit here every Sunday and watch our DT's get blown off the LOS down after down... like the Saints game where we got to watch our lead slip away because we couldn't put any pressure on Brees and couldn't stuff a 3 and 1 rushing attempt that ultimately sealed our fate.

I thought responding with "common sense and basic football understanding" should have been the first clue that it wasn't an actual fact...sorry you missed the point. And it is comon sense, by the way. My last point is that since we really don't know what is true and what is spin/smoke until it actually happens (no matter what actually comes out of a person's mouth) there should be a general assumption that all message board discussions are based on opinion, not fact.

Anyway, now that we're done with the pissyness, I actually don't think we disagree. And to be honest, I have been around here long enough to know that you understand the realities and were just voicing your frustration with an area that you see as a major problem for the team.

So, while I like our young DT's as solid players in the future, I think the team made a mistake by only bringing in one veteran to play alongside them. Even if Edwards had not been hurt, we would still need more (I never thought Neblett was anything more than a long-term development project not far removed from the practice squad). Personally, I'm not a fan of counting on rookie DT's as anything but rotation players. It generally takes them a few years to completely adjust to the NFL, so I think it was a huge mistake to count on them so heavily. And while I never expected a star DT to be brought in (although I did hope), I wish we had brought another solid mid-range player, like Edwards, that could potentially start for a year or so if the rookies were not ready...which they are not. But that's water under the bridge, and we'll just have to wait until the offseason to make the changes we need.

Peace :cheers2:

[nosuchthingasapanther]

Everybody says we will be "fine" when Gettis comes back, but we also have Ron Edwards that went down who is a proven player at DT. So why cant we feel the same way about the DT situation?

because ghettis is potentially a permanent answer to the wr position.

edwards is nothing more than a used bandaid.