Duke Energy to it's customers. "Bend over suckas!"

[charlotte49er]

how is this not a monopoly

Probably because you can produce your own energy?

I would love to put up photo cells on my roof, but the condo board won't go for that.

Here's the kicker. A utility company, I believe by law, has to buy your electricity. But only pay as much as it cost them to buy the energy from another power company! (Maybe 10% of what they charge you an hour!)

[cookinwithgas]

I work for this Evil Empire -

and if you all could see the generators we use to make your power you would drop your jaw. They are all from the 1950s and look like giant versions of those old 50's style Hoover vacuums. We've kept them running for decades and decades but they are going to have to be swapped out. Building even a new coal plant is insanely expensive, and everyone's so used to our rates being so low that now that it's beyond time to rebuild key parts of the infrastucture that cost money, everyone complains.

When the power goes off because we can't maintain our generation capabilities I'd bet people would complain more.

That being said I think the 11.5 is a bargaining point that will be lowered. But rate increases will be needed to us to keep the lights on, build more environmentally friendly plants, etc. We do maintain many wind plants out there as well.

Plus I don't work cheap :-)

[thefuzz]

Nuclear is the only option.

[Kitten Diver]

I work for this Evil Empire -

Plus I don't work cheap :-)

I think people would understand the rate hikes for fixes to the machines. Hell probably even hiring more middle managers/day laborers. I just dont see the point in increasing your companies margin so your CEO and CFO can make another million next year. I think the current 6 million and all the expensed items they want is more than enough.

[Niner National]

Everybody remember....10% of your bill is going directly to "green energy" research!

Whooo Hooo.

No it's not.

It's going to build and upgrade new and existing power plants. The average age of a coal plant in NC is something like 50 years. The last coal plant built in NC was in 1972 and the last power plant built here period was in 1983.

A coal plant costs in the neighborhood of $2 billion to build and a nuclear plant can cost upwards of $20 billion. Return on investment for power facilities is 25-30 years, so its difficult (basically impossible) to find private investment to build new plants. This means they have to finance the projects themselves. With dozens of plants that are now or will soon become obsolete, there are literally hundreds of billions of dollars that must be spent to generate electricity for the future.

Also, with other nations becoming increasingly developed, the demand for coal is going up. Coal is a globally traded commodity, just like oil, so increased demand means a rise in fuel costs.

Duke's rates were kept artificially low for years because the utilities commission in NC restricts their profit margins. This prevented them from investing necessary levels into updating plants, so they just kept putting it off. It can't be put off any longer, they have to make upgrades. They're still burning coal in plants built before WWII! Modern coal plants only convert coal to electricity at a 40% efficiency level, so imagine how poorly the older ones perform.

Even though I understand that people are pissed off their rates will go up, you should be happy NC is a regulated energy state. Every state that has deregulated their energy industry has seen their prices skyrocket. California just recently suspended deregulation because their energy prices went through the roof after the market deregulated.

I now live in Maryland and the prices doubled here after deregulation. The market in PA jumped significantly as well. I have paid as much as $250 in a month for a 700 square foot apartment!

The southeast and the mid/mountain west have the lowest energy rates in the country...they are also the most regulated markets in the country.

[cptx]

Whats the average rate per kw hour in nc?

[Niner National]

Whats the average rate per kw hour in nc?

8-10 cents now for everything (generation, distribution, transmission).

14+ in coastal areas where the municipalities own the power generation facilities.

In a lot of areas, the advertised rate isn't the true rate because you have to pay more for distribution and transmission. In NC this isn't the case. My advertised rate in MD is around 13 cents right now, but in reality I'm paying about 17 cents per kWh.

[Niner National]

Nuclear is the only option.

Nuclear works well and is reliable, but it isn't cheap. The advertised cost per kWh is cheap, but they do not factor in externalities like operational costs or 100,000 years of storage and security costs. The cost to construct the plants are also enormous and they take about 30 years of operation to pay for themselves. Banks won't lend to build them and insurance companies won't insure them (which is why banks and private investors won't invest money to build them). As a result, they must rely on government subsidized loans to be built.

I can't get on the nuclear train until we start storing our nuclear waste in a central well secured facility like what has been built at Yucca mountain. Right now it is stored on site. The more points of failure there are, the greater the likelihood something can go wrong. Risk needs to be minimized.

Another downside to nuclear is that it needs tens of millions of gallons of water daily. There are a finite number of suitable water sources available that can supply these water needs.

[thefuzz]

Nuclear works well and is reliable, but it isn't cheap. The advertised cost per kWh is cheap, but they do not factor in externalities like operational costs or 100,000 years of storage and security costs. The cost to construct the plants are also enormous and they take about 30 years of operation to pay for themselves. Banks won't lend to build them and insurance companies won't insure them (which is why banks and private investors won't invest money to build them). As a result, they must rely on government subsidized loans to be built.

I can't get on the nuclear train until we start storing our nuclear waste in a central well secured facility like what has been built at Yucca mountain. Right now it is stored on site. The more points of failure there are, the greater the likelihood something can go wrong. Risk needs to be minimized.

Another downside to nuclear is that it needs tens of millions of gallons of water daily. There are a finite number of suitable water sources available that can supply these water needs.

All well and good, however the longer we wait (political posturing) to go nuclear heavy the worse it's going to get.

Everything needs to be changed over to natural gas and nuclear. Start building plants and start drilling off the NC coastline for NG. Get some cheap (abundant) energy and this recession we find ourselves in will quickly go away.

[Niner National]

Much of the natural gas boom is a fabrication. There are now serious doubts that there is the amount of gas that was initially reported. A lot of NG company executive emails were leaked that acknowledged estimates were not in line with reality. Some even referred to the 'fracking boom' as the next great ponzi scheme.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericagies/2011/06/27/industry-insiders-call-shale-gas-a-ponzi-scheme-invoke-enron-nyt-report/

ut with the rise fracking, natural gas’ reputation as a “cleaner” fuel has tarnished. Residents near drilling sites have documented tainted wells and flammable tap water, even an exploding house. Then a couple of months ago a Duke report confirmed that wells near fracking sites contained high levels of methane. An analysis from the EPA in January found lifecycle emissions could be dirtier than coal.

And after all that, it now seems that the finances just don’t add up either. In a damning investigative report published this weekend, New York Times reporter Ian Urbina reveals that, in emails amongst themselves, energy executives, industry lawyers, state geologists and market analysts question the economics of shale gas and hint at impropriety. They call company statements about the value of finds a Ponzi scheme, invoke Enron, and cite a mentality of conning Wall Street while drilling fast, before the jig is up. These comments area a stark contrast to the party line industry has been reciting to the press.

As for nuclear construction being held up, it's not just political posturing, its the general population. Everyone is pro nuclear until a nuclear reactor is proposed in their community. Generally companies can force their will against those who live in poverty, but with nuclear needing to be constructed on large bodies on water (where rich people tend to have homes), there will be significant opposition from people in the communities where plants are proposed and unlikely they'll ever be built.

Regardless of what happens, whether the future of energy production in America is NG, Coal, Nuclear, Renewables, or something else, the cost of electricity is going to rise significantly. Making homes more energy efficient should be a top priority. Energy companies subsidize energy efficiency measures in most areas. Not because of environmental regulation, but because decreasing demand to the point they don't have to build new generation facilities is a hell of a lot cheaper than having to build more capacity.

[Dpantherman]

I'm going to steal the Huddle's hamsters