DWill

[panthers55]

straight

As I told folks 2 weeks ago amidst all the bitching, he would improve when we got him the ball out in space and on the edges where he excels. They did what I thought they should and voila- he looks great. Like the illusion, eyeball tests depend on when you are looking and knowing what to look for. 3 weeks ago he looked bad, this week he looked great. What changed?? Playcalling most of all.

[CRA]

As I told folks 2 weeks ago amidst all the bitching, he would improve when we got him the ball out in space and on the edges where he excels. They did what I thought they should and voila- he looks great. Like the illusion, eyeball tests depend on when you are looking and knowing what to look for. 3 weeks ago he looked bad, this week he looked great. What changed?? Playcalling most of all.

well, I thought he would improve as well based off his start.

but none of the stuff MOST said really has changed. Stewart is younger and better. Money could of been used differently. His best days are behind him and he is not the 2008 RB (regardless of playcalls, OL play, etc. ).

but don't get me wrong....as a player, he is still one of my favorites. I just think from a Panther standpoint things could and probably should of gone different in regards to what we did with our backfield.

[weymouthst]

I don't think getting rid of DWill was the right move. Having two legitimate RB's like JStew and DWill is too good to give up.

No one knew that Cam would come out and start like he did. Having a stable running game, even with injuries, was probably a huge priority for the offense. I know that the scheme has moved to a down field passing attack, but again, no one knew how Cam was going to be able to handle that.

So keeping double trouble together was the right move. And we are now poised to have JStew eventually become the #1, and DWill will move to #2. It will work out in the end, even 2-3 seasons down the line.

But yes, I was excited for DWill to have a good game. That run was awesome, and JStew is looking good as well. Once this offense brings it all together, it'll be special.

[CRA]

I don't think getting rid of DWill was the right move. Having two legitimate RB's like JStew and DWill is too good to give up.

No one knew that Cam would come out and start like he did. Having a stable running game, even with injuries, was probably a huge priority for the offense. I know that the scheme has moved to a down field passing attack, but again, no one knew how Cam was going to be able to handle that.

So keeping double trouble together was the right move. And we are now poised to have JStew eventually become the #1, and DWill will move to #2. It will work out in the end, even 2-3 seasons down the line.

But yes, I was excited for DWill to have a good game. That run was awesome, and JStew is looking good as well. Once this offense brings it all together, it'll be special.

well what is done is done.

I got no beef w/ having 2 legit RBs.

But fact remains we have morphed itno a passing team and still have 1 WR as well. Depth wise, this team is still built wrong in terms of talent.

I mean realistically, Cam has suprised us....and I am sure Rivera and Hurney. I think Hurney assumed Williams/Stewart at least for the short term would be forced to carry us as Rivera got his offense/Cam on track. Hindsight.

[dpm0409]

this offense is going to be the tits.

I'm glad somebody else utilizes the phase "tits" haha, fugging awesome :cheers2:

[panthers55]

well, I thought he would improve as well based off his start.

but none of the stuff MOST said really has changed. Stewart is younger and better. Money could of been used differently. His best days are behind him and he is not the 2008 RB (regardless of playcalls, OL play, etc. ).

but don't get me wrong....as a player, he is still one of my favorites. I just think from a Panther standpoint things could and probably should of gone different in regards to what we did with our backfield.

Stewart is fine but I don't know he is better. He is bigger and a harder runner but Williams is better in space and is more elusive. They complement each other. As for the money, if it wasn't spend on Williams there is nothing to suggest it would have been spent elsewhere. Our goal was to lock in our core group not spend 50 million over the cap

As for us not running and being only a passing team, that is not true. Secondly our short passing game is an extension of our running game particularly screens and dump off passes. Right now Stewart has 80 yards more receiving through 5 games than he had in all of 2010. He has 162 yards running on 37 attempts and 183 yards on 10 receptions for a total of 345 yards. Last year he had a total of 873 yards combined for the season. He is way ahead of last year's pace.

Williams you can't really count since he only played 6 games last year. But through five games he has 258 yards on 46 rushing attempts and another 46 yards on 7 attempts for a total of 304 yards.

Combined through 5 games they have accounted for 649 yards of our offense or 130 yards a game. If that were all rushing that would put us 6th on the list. In my mind a toss is a backwards pass and a screen is a forward pass but it is the same thing. Our backs are doing fine and picking up Williams was a very good thing.

[CRA]

Stewart is fine but I don't know he is better. He is bigger and a harder runner but Williams is better in space and is more elusive. They complement each other. As for the money, if it wasn't spend on Williams there is nothing to suggest it would have been spent elsewhere. Our goal was to lock in our core group not spend 50 million over the cap

As for us not running and being only a passing team, that is not true. Secondly our short passing game is an extension of our running game particularly screens and dump off passes. Right now Stewart has 80 yards more receiving through 5 games than he had in all of 2010. He has 162 yards running on 37 attempts and 183 yards on 10 receptions for a total of 345 yards. Last year he had a total of 873 yards combined for the season. He is way ahead of last year's pace.

Williams you can't really count since he only played 6 games last year. But through five games he has 258 yards on 46 rushing attempts and another 46 yards on 7 attempts for a total of 304 yards.

Combined through 5 games they have accounted for 649 yards of our offense or 130 yards a game. If that were all rushing that would put us 6th on the list. In my mind a toss is a backwards pass and a screen is a forward pass but it is the same thing. Our backs are doing fine and picking up Williams was a very good thing.

There was nothing to suggest it would be spent elsewhere b/c Carolina made of up there mind probably before Rivera was hired or Cam was drafted that they were going to pay Williams.

I didn't say we were only a passing team.....I said we are a passing team. That is true.

Fact remains we are a passing team with 1 WR...1 promising/good TE and stacked backfield. (Shockey while valuable is just a band aid). We are still built talent/investment wise to be running team.

as far as the screen short pass being an extension of the ground game I agree......and there are much better RBs for that than Williams at a fraction of the price.

[panthers55]

There was nothing to suggest it would be spent elsewhere b/c Carolina made of up there mind probably before Rivera was hired or Cam was drafted that they were going to pay Williams.

I didn't say we were only a passing team.....I said we are a passing team. That is true.

Fact remains we are a passing team with 1 WR...1 promising/good TE and stacked backfield. (Shockey while valuable is just a band aid). We are still built talent/investment wise to be running team.

as far as the screen short pass being an extension of the ground game I agree......and there are much better RBs for that than Williams at a fraction of the price.

I agree that Williams was going to paid. It is a good thing you don't make the decisions.

We have 1 great receiver, a good one on IR, and several who are progressing and getting better. We have 3 TEs, 2 who are good and one on IR.

We are not built to be a running team anymore we are a vertical passing team who can run or pass with a number of different people including a QB.

As for better running backs in the passing game, we have 1 in Stewart. But it isn't like all of those other better guys were dying to play in Carolina this year and we had our pick of the litter.

Wait until this offense really gets rolling. Things are only going to get better. This is only 5 games into the new regime and we are doubling our offensive numbers from last year. When Newton starts actually calling audibles and recognizing defenses we are going to do even more.

[CRA]

I agree that Williams was going to paid. It is a good thing you don't make the decisions.

We have 1 great receiver, a good one on IR, and several who are progressing and getting better. We have 3 TEs, 2 who are good and one on IR.

We are not built to be a running team anymore we are a vertical passing team who can run or pass with a number of different people including a QB.

As for better running backs in the passing game, we have 1 in Stewart. But it isn't like all of those other better guys were dying to play in Carolina this year and we had our pick of the litter.

Wait until this offense really gets rolling. Things are only going to get better. This is only 5 games into the new regime and we are doubling our offensive numbers from last year. When Newton starts actually calling audibles and recognizing defenses we are going to do even more.

People are too quick to ink Gettis in as a proven and good WR. Like I said, Shockey is great for Cam this year....but he doesn't belong in talks about building this team. He is a band aid/short term player.

Based on talent...we still have a stacked backfield that would suggest they need more touches to be worth the investment. We still have 1 WR. This is still Fox's roster to a LARGE degree around the QB postion. Bringing in Olsen and some middle of the road to garbage players doesn't mean it is now built to be a passing over what Fox/Hurney put on this roster for years.

[panthers55]

People are too quick to ink Gettis in as a proven and good WR. Like I said, Shockey is great for Cam this year....but he doesn't belong in talks about building this team. He is a band aid/short term player.

Based on talent...we still have a stacked backfield that would suggest they need more touches to be worth the investment. We still have 1 WR. This is still Fox's roster to a LARGE degree around the QB postion. Bringing in Olsen and some middle of the road to garbage players doesn't mean it is now built to be a passing over what Fox/Hurney put on this roster for years.

One of the reasons that conventional wisdom is to wait 3 years is because one season good or bad is too soon to see if a player will be a boon or bust. All you have to remember is Colbert to see that lesson.

Our running backs are getting touches. If you look at the last 2 games you can see their roles are expanding particularly in the passing game. Chud had no offseason, no OTAs and is still installing the offense why can't folks give him time before passing judgement??

I would think the proof is in the pudding. The fact we are 6th in offense and are sixth in passing yards at 311 yard per game and tied for sixth in yards per attempt at 8.3 tells you all you need to know.

Truth is with the exception of 2008 we were not a good running team we were a persistent running team. We did it over and over whether it worked or not.

Come into the light my friend and be glad. We have the best offense we have had in a decade. Olsen is a beast and is going to be a force and Shockey is a great blocking tight end as well as a good receiver. As for being built as a run first team, I would disagree. Right now we are a better pass blocking team than a running team. Doesn't hurt that Cam is elusive and can avoid sacks. Then again teams like New Orleans, New England, and Indy always had good lines largely because of their quarterbacks' quick release. With the exception of Otah we are not bruisers.

[CRA]

One of the reasons that conventional wisdom is to wait 3 years is because one season good or bad is too soon to see if a player will be a boon or bust. All you have to remember is Colbert to see that lesson.

Our running backs are getting touches. If you look at the last 2 games you can see their roles are expanding particularly in the passing game. Chud had no offseason, no OTAs and is still installing the offense why can't folks give him time before passing judgement??

I would think the proof is in the pudding. The fact we are 6th in offense and are sixth in passing yards at 311 yard per game and tied for sixth in yards per attempt at 8.3 tells you all you need to know.

Truth is with the exception of 2008 we were not a good running team we were a persistent running team. We did it over and over whether it worked or not.

Come into the light my friend and be glad. We have the best offense we have had in a decade. Olsen is a beast and is going to be a force and Shockey is a great blocking tight end as well as a good receiver. As for being built as a run first team, I would disagree. Right now we are a better pass blocking team than a running team. Doesn't hurt that Cam is elusive and can avoid sacks. Then again teams like New Orleans, New England, and Indy always had good lines largely because of their quarterbacks' quick release. With the exception of Otah we are not bruisers.

if you look at our backfield from top to bottom....it is arguably the best in the NFL.

If Steve Smith the #1 WR goes down....Carolina's passing attack would rank in the bottom half of the NFL.

You can't say those things about teams BUILT to pass.

I got no complaints about what we are doing. Very happy with it. but Rivera and company don't have the roster a passing team would want yet.....more talent needs to be invested into the WRs......and less at the RB spot.

I mean GB would have no interest in keeping 2 RBs like we have on there roster if it meant they had weaker WRs.......you can find RBs anywhere. WRs you cant

And lastly....look at how many touches per game DeAngelo gets compared to other RBs in the NFL.....then look at what they cost vs.him......just seems like Hurney wasn't aware of what the new guys were about IMO.

[dimbee]

YPC doesn't mean poo if they're not getting multiple carries

[Louie]

After watching that game against the Saints, I am 100% convinced if we would have given Williams about 6 more carries we would have won that game. We were gaining good chunks of yards, eating the clock, and controlling the football. 10 carries a game is not enough. I am glad Chud wants to be a pass first offense. That is what it takes to win in the NFL under the current rules, however, we are a much more effective team when we are running the football well, especially when we have the lead in the 4th quarter and we are trying to win. If they can get the ratio up to at least 40% run and 60% pass we can win most games, even with our current defense, imho.

[Louie]

CRA-"And lastly....look at how many touches per game DeAngelo gets compared to other RBs in the NFL.....then look at what they cost vs.him......just seems like Hurney wasn't aware of what the new guys were about IMO."

That last sentence is very insightful. I don't think Hurney, Rivera, or Chud knew we would be able to pass as effectively as we can with Cam. I think it's great, but we need just a little more balance and we will flat out roll teams.