A few thoughts everyone should remember about Sunday

[chef17]

I fail to see how a narcissist can be a great team player. Someone who is "all about me" won't put the team first.

[bauss]

I simply want arguments based on fact instead of speculation. I don't have to prove he isn't a narcissist in a negative way, you have to prove he is, since you made the assertion and you clearly didn't prove anything. Last I heard you are still innocent until proven guilty. If what you think will happen does, then feel free to comment. Until then, you got nothing. Everything published about him since he became a Panther belies your assertions. I defend him like I would any other Panther against baseless comments. And get off the positive narcissistic comments, that is ridiculous. If you want to go there change the word narcissist to confident, assured, positive in his abilities, etc. We would have no argument, but then folks would ask why you went on and on talking about positive characteristics all football players have and we all know about. So you are either baseless or irrelevant. Take your pick.

Exactly. Burden of proof is on the accuser.

[PantherFanForLife]

I fail to see how a narcissist can be a great team player. Someone who is "all about me" won't put the team first.

I explained it earlier. I don't know about a team player, but a team leader, yes! Michael Jordan is one such example. A narcissist doesn't just simply mean....all about me(that's an emotional issue)....being a narcissist doesn't prevent someone from getting his team around him, and leading them or being the greatest team leader there ever was. Muhammad Ali was all about me because he was in boxing.

A narcissist just believe they are the best and greatest. But they actually NEED other people around them to believe this as well. They can be great team players as long as they are seen as the leaders of the team, and it's usually fine as long as the team believes this, and the reason they typically achieve this is because they are DAMN GOOD at what they do.

It does mean they like to have the spotlight, though, and will typically find a way to get it shined on them.

[PantherFanForLife]

Exactly. Burden of proof is on the accuser.

I think I posted enough proof to back up my argument of the fact some of the greatest leaders are also narcissist. Whether you want to accept it or not, is a different story but personally I think I have done enough. However, I don't have to prove that my personal belief, something I stated from the get go, is that Cam Newton is a narcissist.

However if you're going to attack my beliefs and flame me, then you better have something to back it up. Otherwise it's just pure flaming.

[chef17]

I explained it earlier. I don't know about a team player, but a team leader, yes! Michael Jordan is one such example. A narcissist doesn't just simply mean....all about me(that's an emotional issue)....being a narcissist doesn't prevent someone from getting his team around him, and leading them or being the greatest team leader there ever was. Muhammad Ali was all about me because he was in boxing.

A narcissist just believe they are the best and greatest. But they actually NEED other people around them to believe this as well. They can be great team players as long as they are seen as the leaders of the team, and it's usually fine as long as the team believes this, and the reason they typically achieve this is because they are DAMN GOOD at what they do.

It does mean they like to have the spotlight, though, and will typically find a way to get it shined on them.

Everything we have seen from Cam shows he puts the team above his self. Unless you assume it's all a lie, he would be the opposite of a narcissist

[PantherFanForLife]

Everything we have seen from Cam shows he puts the team above his self. Unless you assume it's all a lie, he would be the opposite of a narcissist

You still don't understand a narcissist, do you?

But to play along, by the most stringent of definitions, the opposite of a narcissist would be Jimmy Clausen.....or someone that self-loathes, hates themselves;)

But by most modern definitions, altruism, selflessness are not actually opposites of narcissists. There's inverted narcissists but there really is no such thing as an opposite to a narcissist, because that would mean they would be so freaking depressed they are already dead.

A narcissist doesn't just = selfish. Narcissist can be selfish, and they can be un-empathetic, but they are primarily identified as people that think very highly of themselves, and LOVE themselves. Elitists. So if Cam was the opposite he would think of himself as if he was a nobody, a worthless, no good human being.

Now it can be a normal dose, or it can go over board to where they start loving themselves so much they think they're God, and everyone else is beneath and become completely inconsiderate of other people's feelings.... and this is when things can get ugly.

As far as what your view of what "we have seen of Cam", I think think that's just what you want to describe it as. Personally the only thing I have seen with my own two eyes is that he loves to lead this team. He loves to be the leader of this team. One who has no problem putting himself in the same sentence with Tom Brady and telling everyone....hey...we're all on the same damn level...for now;)!

Personally I love seeing this in Cam.

[Floppin]

by modern definitions PFFL means Michael Maccoby's definition.

[PantherFanForLife]

by modern definitions PFFL means Michael Maccoby's definition.

No, it's just by modern definition, same one you can also find in wikipedia....if you just read the full thing:

Narcissism is a term with a wide range of meanings, depending on whether it is used to describe a central concept of psychoanalytic theory, a mental illness, a social or cultural problem, or simply a personality trait. Except in the sense of primary narcissism or healthy self-love, "narcissism" usually is used to describe some kind of problem in a person or group's relationships with self and others. In everyday speech, "narcissism" often means inflated self-importance, egotism, vanity, conceit, or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others. In psychology, the term is used to describe both normal self-love and unhealthy self-absorption due to a disturbance in the sense of self.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

[Floppin]

I'm just picking on you, you're too uptight.

[chef17]

In everyday speech, "narcissism" often means inflated self-importance, egotism, vanity, conceit, or simple selfishness

So in everyday speech we have seen nothing to display Cam is a narcissist.

[redbuddha]

I think I posted enough proof to back up my argument of the fact some of the greatest leaders are also narcissist. Whether you want to accept it or not, is a different story but personally I think I have done enough. However, I don't have to prove that my personal belief, something I stated from the get go, is that Cam Newton is a narcissist.

However if you're going to attack my beliefs and flame me, then you better have something to back it up. Otherwise it's just pure flaming.

Dude sounds like your are talking about Kobe!

[PantherFanForLife]

So in everyday speech we have seen nothing to display Cam is a narcissist.

And according to psychological terms any normal person who loves themselves is a narcissist. So what the hell is your point? Cam is a normal person?

Maybe you didn't, but I actually saw just about all of those things in his most recent interview as well as his time at Auburn with the exception of simple selfishness. But yeah, self-importance, egotism, vanity, conceit.... I do see them. Quiet easy to notice.

As for your other part, because if you read my initial post....I didn't just say Cam was a narcissist. I said a full blown narcissist. He's unlike anyone I have ever seen to be honest. But to say Cam's a normal person, is a bit short sighted. He's a Heisman Trophy winner, star QB in the NFL.

I have never seen an NFL rookie do what Cam Newton has done. Never. I have never seen one take over a team like this day 1. I have never seen one take over the media like this, day 1. I have never seen such confidence and poise on the field, day 1. I have never seen leadership abilities like this, day 1.

And when you really think about, it, have you? What I'm trying to tell you and what I said, is this is NOT an accident. His confidence is so far off the chart, it almost borderlines over-confidence. Yet, we know it's not over-confidence, because he does perform at the level his attitude displays. I have just never seen someone coming straight out of college and believe in himself this much. Only someone that believes he IS an elite QB, can do this. Not will be someday, but IS..... Now!

Think about that for a second.

[teeray]

I will say it again. Cam doesn't have narcissism he has swag. Deal wit it.

For the record PFFL I understand your overall theory and agree with a lot of it but you are simply misusing the term narcissist.

Part of the problem with a narcissist is that they have no self awareness. A narcissist wouldn't put in the work that Cam has because he would already believe he was perfect; and when he failed he would blame every one except himself (think Jeff George). Cam has done the exact opposite of that. He has put all of the blame on his own shoulders even at times when he shouldn't.

I am not a psychologist but I would compare Cam Newton's psychology to that of a Michael Jordan or Larry Bird. All three have very large egos intertwined with a bout of insecurity. And yes that is possible. Is there anyone as thin skinned as MJ??

The ego provides them with the desire to be the best at what they do and the insecurity provides the obsession to be the best. It is a potentially explosive mix for an athlete with the talent that an MJ had or a Cam Newton has.

Just my two cents. I think you may be right I just think you are using the wrong phrasiology to make your point.

[PantherFanForLife]

I will say it again. Cam doesn't have narcissism he has swag. Deal wit it.

For the record PFFL I understand your overall theory and agree with a lot of it but you are simply misusing the term narcissist.

Part of the problem with a narcissist is that they have no self awareness. A narcissist wouldn't put in the work that Cam has because he would already believe he was perfect; and when he failed he would blame every one except himself (think Jeff George). Cam has done the exact opposite of that. He has put all of the blame on his own shoulders even at times when he shouldn't.

I am not a psychologist but I would compare Cam Newton's psychology to that of a Michael Jordan or Larry Bird. All three have very large egos intertwined with a bout of insecurity. And yes that is possible. Is there anyone as thin skinned as MJ??

The ego provides them with the desire to be the best at what they do and the insecurity provides the obsession to be the best. It is a potentially explosive mix for an athlete with the talent that an MJ had or a Cam Newton has.

Just my two cents. I think you may be right I just think you are using the wrong phrasiology to make your point.

I'm not misusing the term, and I can tell you are not a psychologist. There are however a lot of others, that are indeed misusing the term, including yourself, and still ignorantly arguing with me about it instead of taking the 5 minutes it takes to read up on it a little bit and actually understand it. I will ask you again to just look up the FULL definition on wikipedia, Marriam-Webster, Dictionary.com and truly understand the term, before you tell me I'm not using it correctly.

Here I'll do it for you:

nar·cis·sism

   /ˈnɑrsəˌsɪzɛm/ Show Spelled[nahr-suh-siz-em] Show IPA

noun

1.

inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity.

2.

Psychoanalysis . erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.

What you are saying:

Part of the problem with a narcissist is that they have no self awareness. A narcissist wouldn't put in the work that Cam has because he would already believe he was perfect;"

Is incorrect. That is not what defines a narcissist and that is NOT what eliminates Newton from possibly being a narcissist. There are many different aspects and traits that make up a narcissist. They are not all the same. The simplest way to define a narcissist is simply a person that's in love with themselves, and an elitist. They think they are the greatest. Period. It doesn't mean they think they are perfect. It does mean they think they are great and strive and obsess with perfection. It doesn't prevent them from working hard. It doesn't prevent them from knowing not to pass on blame in an interview.

Again they are typically the greatest of leaders because they have the greatest of confidence! If they were unaware, or completely selfish, or what you are suggesting, they would never be the greatest leaders.

As for this part:

The ego provides them with the desire to be the best at what they do and the insecurity provides the obsession to be the best.

That's basically the concept behind a narcissist. And if you see Newton like Michael, then please understand, that's what I initially stated and yes, Michael Jordan is a narcissist. And so is Newton.