A few thoughts everyone should remember about Sunday

[panthers55]

You really should read more about narcissism. The first part you wrote applies to personal relationships and emotional connections, which is typically true, and it's also the reason guys like Tiger Woods have 32 mistresses. My bet is if you were Cam's girlfriend it's possible you might get to see a full blown dose of everything you wrote. This is where it gets its negative connotations. They tend to have a hard time displaying any empathy.

The term Narcissistic typically doesn't mean a healthy self ego or a person with a good self concept. Athletes as well as all successful people have a healthy confidence level and good ego. They also want to succeed and be the best they can be. But that is not the issue most people talk about when they discuss narcissism.

If you want to use it in the broad sense of the word then it applies to millions of people but that is not the context I read in your post or your comparisons to OJ for example. And to bring out an example such as OJ Simpson without discussing every other professional athlete suggests a negative connotation rather than a positive one. Otherwise why not compare him to Tom Brady or Peyton Manning who all are very confident and have big egos but like Newton are secondary to the team and want to win as a team as much as put up big numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

Narcissism is a term with a wide range of meanings, depending on whether it is used to describe a central concept of psychoanalytic theory, a mental illness, a social or cultural problem, or simply a personality trait. Except in the sense of primary narcissism or healthy self-love, "narcissism" usually is used to describe some kind of problem in a person or group's relationships with self and others. In everyday speech, "narcissism" often means inflated self-importance, egotism, vanity, conceit, or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others. In psychology,

Narcissism is a term with a wide range of meanings, depending on whether it is used to describe a central concept of psychoanalytic theory, a mental illness, a social or cultural problem, or simply a personality trait. Except in the sense of primary narcissism or healthy self-love, "narcissism" usually is used to describe some kind of problem in a person or group's relationships with self and others. In everyday speech, "narcissism" often means inflated self-importance, egotism, vanity, conceit, or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others. In psychology, the term is used to describe both normal self-love and unhealthy self-absorption due to a disturbance in the sense of self.

the term is used to describe both normal self-love and unhealthy self-absorption due to a disturbance in the sense of self.

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx36.htm

Narcissistic Personality Disorder

By Psych Central Staff

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of grandiosity (either in fantasy or actual behavior), an overwhelming need for admiration, and usually a complete lack of empathy toward others. People with this disorder often believe they are of primary importance in everybody's life or to anyone they meet. While this pattern of behavior may be appropriate for a king in 16th Century England, it is generally considered inappropriate for most ordinary people today.

People with narcissistic personality disorder often display snobbish, disdainful, or patronizing attitudes. For example, an individual with this disorder may complain about a clumsy waiter's "rudeness" or "stupidity" or conclude a medical evaluation with a condescending evaluation of the physician.

In laypeople terms, someone with this disorder may be described simply as a "narcissist" or as someone with "narcissism." Both of these terms generally refer to someone with narcissistic personality disorder.

As noted below layman terms suggest a problem not a positive attribute. Otherwise you wouldn't be concerned about it or suggest like OJ it might be an issue.

As for the Gandi comparisons, a spiritual leader who starves himself to win freedom for his people and preaches non violent protest while he is being persecuted is hardly a good or germain comparison. He may be a narcisist in the definition of self love but clearly is not a good comparison here. You were right about Hitler and I would add a few names like Stalin, and Jim Jones. Lets talk about them.................

As for the psychological analysis of Cam, I don't agree. Narcissists don't use others to anchor them, they use others to feed their ego and reaffirm that their view of themselves is correct. They are not looking for foils to ground them but admirers to fawn over them and confirm their view that they are special and entitled.

They often do have people who serve as foils or grounding elements which when gone cause an exacerbation of the symptoms and ultimate issues. Look for example at a player like Vick who when he lived with his mother was generally grounded. He railed against that and gravitated to "yes" people who affirmed his negative behaviors

Cams support is his family but I don't know that he needs them for grounding to avoid an unhealthy narcisistic view of the world. He seems to rely on family friends, teammates, etc and has a very healthy perspective. I think his relationship with Smith is not based on both having narcissistic tendencies but both having extremely competitive natures to win and perform at their best. Othrwise you could include any professional athlete in this group or successful professional in this group.

So while I hear what you are saying I don't agree that you understand the dynamics involved or that you are accurate in your analysis. And yes before you ask I do have advanced degrees in psychology and have worked with clients, adults and athletes with a wide range of issues. So no it didn't come from the media.

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[PantherFanForLife]

Again, that's because you are only looking at narcissistic personality disorder!

Here: Read something like this:

http://www.maccoby.com/Articles/NarLeaders.shtml

Throughout history, narcissists have always emerged to inspire people and to shape the future. When military, religious, and political arenas dominated society, it was figures such as Napoléon Bonaparte, Mahatma Ghandi, or Franklin Delano Roosevelt who determined the social agenda. But from time to time, when business became the engine of social change, it, too, generated its share of narcissistic leaders. That was true at the beginning of this century, when men like Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller, Thomas Edison, and Henry Ford exploited new technologies and restructured American industry. And I think it is true again today

I compared him to O.J. because his look, stance, and smile reminds me of O.J. and because O.J. in his prime was very much a dazzling and never-before seen type of player. I also compared him to Muhammad Ali or Michael Jordan. Except those guys are in a different sport. O.J. is also a good example of what happens when it turns against you. Vick was also another player with that type of game-changing potential which took a bad turn. But again, Cam just reminds me more of O.J., than Vick.

And yes all narcissist have a dark or negative side.

But Freud recognized that there is a darker side to narcissism. Narcissists, he pointed out, are emotionally isolated and highly distrustful. Perceived threats can trigger rage. Achievements can feed feelings of grandiosity. That’s why Freud thought narcissists were the hardest personality types to analyze. Consider how an executive at Oracle described his narcissistic CEO Larry Ellison: “The difference between God and Larry is that God does not believe he is Larry.” That observation is amusing, but it is also troubling. Not surprisingly, most people still think of narcissists in a primarily negative way. After all, Freud named the type after the mythical figure Narcissus, who died because of his pathological preoccupation with himself.

That is a fact. They all do. Cam will have a negative side.

Don't believe me? Think I'm talking out of my ass? I didn't see it but here's what another member just posted:

That sound byte got coverage on First Take this morning. The snippet at the bottom of the screen: "Cam says he's in same league as Brady."

Poor guy is being passed off as arrogant now.

Get used to things like that, and yes a lot of them will be brought on by Cam. All I'm trying to tell you guys, is to stop this holier than now attitude about Cam, because I really, really think he's not going to fit that bill. Personally, I am excited. I AM ready to accept the bad with the good. I'm just trying to bring you guys along.

[Guild]

No response is really needed.

But you didn't call me out with nothing. Saying someone is stupid or idiotic because you think they are, or cause they write a lot, without ever actually providing a reasonable counter argument, is just simply flaming, doesn't actually contribute to anything, and imo, those are the ones I would consider garbage replies.

And I have nothing more to say as far as your intelligence but I can say a thing or two about your ignorance. Replying to something you believe is a waste of time, derailing a discussion with your complaints about it, making multiple replies repeating the same thing over and over, and forcing me to reply to your complaints......does exactly what it is you seem to complain about....waste people's times and puts up pointless text that forces people to scroll over.

And that's just ignorant and hypocritical.

Great post length. A little long winded for the subject but one day you might catch on.

Obviously I'm correct about a certain something though if you believe you are forced to respond to me. I mean come on... wtf is wrong with you? Never mind I already figured it out.

[Floppin]

PFFL is just combining psychopath and sociopathy and creating his own definitions.

[PantherFanForLife]

PFFL is just combining psychopath and sociopathy and creating his own definitions.

More ignorance and invented conclusions. Where did I combine psycopathy and sociopathy?

[panthers55]

PFFL is just combining psychopath and sociopathy and creating his own definitions.

He is alot like TRD. When they are wrong about something and get called out on it, they redefine the argument narrowly into a context where they can make a legitimate argument and they go back and forth until they wear everyone out. You and I both know that he was talking about narcissism in a negative context with a cautionary concern that if his relationship soured with his father as a foil, then he might develop a problem and be too self absorbed. Instead we now get the Gandhi comparisons after the fact.

He has nothing at this point but will continue to argue and bring up obscure references and weak comparisons to prove his point. I wonder if he knows he is a narcissist and not in a good way???

[boo7382]

[panthers55]

I compared him to O.J. because his look, stance, and smile reminds me of O.J. and because O.J. in his prime was very much a dazzling and never-before seen type of player.

Get used to things like that, and yes a lot of them will be brought on by Cam. All I'm trying to tell you guys, is to stop this holier than now attitude about Cam, because I really, really think he's not going to fit that bill. Personally, I am excited. I AM ready to accept the bad with the good. I'm just trying to bring you guys along.

You remind me of the analysts who crucified Cam based on little or no evidence. Only now you are going on and on about what you believe to be the case without any evidence or training to make that opinion. If you want to talk sometime about it I will be glad to let you know about OJ and what led to his demise. He was nothing like Newton nor was Vick.

You aren't bringing anyone along anywhere. You are speculating with no evidence and playing junior pyschoanalyst based on never even meeting or talking to Newton.

Just like in the OJ case: If the glove don't fit you must acquit.

[PantherFanForLife]

He is alot like TRD. When they are wrong about something and get called out on it, they redefine the argument naroowly into a context where they can make a legitimate argument and they go back and forth until they wear everyone out. You and I both know that he was talking about narcissism in a negative context with a cautionary concern that if his relationship soured with his father as a foil, then he might develop a problem and be too self absorbed. Instead we now get the Gandhi comparisons after the fact.

He has nothing at this point but will continue to argue and bring up obscure references and weak comparisons to prove his point. I wonder if he knows he is a narcissist and not in a good way???

You didn't prove anything wrong. You proved me wrong? Cam Newton is NOT a narcissist? You proved that wrong? Really? Ok.....keep thinking that.

And the second part, it's because you guys got your panties in a bunch because I mentioned O.J. Simpson. I stated it from the get go that it was a concern, but I also mentioned Muhammad Ali and Michael Jordan. You, oth, chose to only focus on the negative. Which is typical, because anything that could possibly come across as negative criticism about Cam Newton is automatically defended, and frowned upon. So I had to show you other examples such as Ghandi to try to get you to understand that a narcissist isn't always "evil". Which is what's in your mind. But can also lead to exceptional leaders.

Yes I was concerned, because it is in fact a real possibility it can go either way and because as I stated in the first sentence, O.J. Simpson was just the first person to pop into my mind when I saw a picture of Cam.

Your problem is you can't accept that. You can't take anyone that might even imply something negative about of Cam and feel the need to defend him no matter what. Unfortunately, that doesn't make you right, nor does it mean, you proved me wrong.

Cam Newton, IS, a narcissist. And my gut is he's going to be one of the greatest we've ever seen.

[Floppin]

PFFL read one Michael Maccoby book and bought into this one quacks theory on narcissistic traits and now thinks he's a psychoanalytical scholar with a focus on narcissism.

[panthers55]

You didn't prove anything wrong. You proved me wrong? Cam Newton is NOT a narcissist? You proved that wrong? Really? Ok.....keep thinking that.

And the second part, it's because you guys got your panties in a bunch because I mentioned O.J. Simpson. I stated it from the get go that it was a concern, but I also mentioned Muhammad Ali and Michael Jordan. You, oth, chose to only focus on the negative. Which is typical, because anything that could possibly come across as negative criticism about Cam Newton is automatically defended, and frowned upon. So I had to show you other examples such as Ghandi to try to get you to understand that a narcissist isn't always "evil". Which is what's in your mind. But can also lead to exceptional leaders.

Yes I was concerned, because it is in fact a real possibility it can go either way and because as I stated in the first sentence, O.J. Simpson was just the first person to pop into my mind when I saw a picture of Cam.

Your problem is you can't accept that. You can't take anyone that might even imply something negative about of Cam and feel the need to defend him no matter what. Unfortunately, that doesn't make you right, nor does it mean, you proved me wrong.

Cam Newton, IS, a narcissist. And my gut is he's going to be one of the greatest we've ever seen.

I simply want arguments based on fact instead of speculation. I don't have to prove he isn't a narcissist in a negative way, you have to prove he is, since you made the assertion and you clearly didn't prove anything. Last I heard you are still innocent until proven guilty. If what you think will happen does, then feel free to comment. Until then, you got nothing. Everything published about him since he became a Panther belies your assertions. I defend him like I would any other Panther against baseless comments. And get off the positive narcissistic comments, that is ridiculous. If you want to go there change the word narcissist to confident, assured, positive in his abilities, etc. We would have no argument, but then folks would ask why you went on and on talking about positive characteristics all football players have and we all know about. So you are either baseless or irrelevant. Take your pick.

[Guild]

I think expecting the posters here to understand burden of proof is to much P55.

Just look at what happens when topics about.... never mind.

[PantherFanForLife]

I simply want arguments based on fact instead of speculation. I don't have to prove he isn't a narcissist in a negative way, you have to prove he is, since you made the assertion and you clearly didn't prove anything. Last I heard you are still innocent until proven guilty. If what you think will happen does, then feel free to comment. Until then, you got nothing. Everything published about him since he became a Panther belies your assertions. I defend him like I would any other Panther against baseless comments. And get off the positive narcissistic comments, that is ridiculous. If you want to go there change the word narcissist to confident, assured, positive in his abilities, etc. We would have no argument, but then folks would ask why you went on and on talking about positive characteristics all football players have and we all know about. So you are either baseless or irrelevant. Take your pick.

You still seem to think when I say Newton is a narcissist, I'm saying something bad or that I view it as strictly negative way. So let me repeat, I don't. There is NOTHING to defend.

And no I'm not going to change the word narcissist to confident, because they are completely different things. All football players do have characteristics of confidence and positive abilities, etc. That's why it's not worth talking about. The greatest football players and leaders have characteristics of a narcissist. They are narcissists.

And it was my personal view from the very beginning. I don't really have to prove anything.

[Guild]

Good thing we have psychic psychoanalyst PFFL here to tell us all about this person he doesn't fuging know.