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A few thoughts everyone should remember about Sunday


PiratePanther189

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But that's not what I initially said. I said a full blown narcissist. And that's my opinion. I said he's one of the biggest I have ever seen, which also leads me to believe he's going to do very amazing things for this franchise, much like other incredibly narcissists throughout history.:D

My point was to use the narcissism I saw in him to relate him to other big time narcissists and historic players, in order to back up my belief that he's going to be amazing and likely do great things for this franchise.

It was also to warn others ahead of time that along with that comes the likelihood of continued comments that are going to rub people the wrong way. He's not going to be your typical awe shucks QB. I see him more as someone like Ali.

So if I understand correctly you think he will do great things because he is a narcissists and other narcissists have done great things?

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You called him a full-blown narcissist, which, while not technically a diagnosis, is impossible to substantiate with the very few actual examples you gave. So much for insurmountable evidence. Plus you are now saying that everyone is stuck on the layman's definition while you are now claiming to be looking at it from the "full concept". That sounds like you are overstating your abilities...big time.

It can be argued that everyone displays some degree of narcissism at some point or another in their everyday lives. I'd be willing to say that many professional athletes show some degree of it simply from being a professional athlete. I seriously doubt that personality trait is the difference maker that gets athletes to such great heights. It's not a super power and most of the time it's a negative trait and influence. Throwing MJ, Ali and OJ for comparison purposes weakens your point because you can't pigeonhole them into your theory here by simply saying they are narcissists.

First of all it was a matter of opinion.

Second, the insurmountable evidence was referring to the fact that narcissism isn't strictly a negative concept, not for proving Cam Newton is a full blown narcissist. And while it may appear to you that I am overstating my abilities, which is a typical narcissistic trait, I'm not that far off the mark because you still don't understand the concept.

It's neither by psychological definition. And I have provided insurmountable evidence for this.

It may have been perceived as negative because it has previously only been mentioned when someone was diagnosed with NPD but it's not "mostly a negative trait". It can hardly be described as a trait at all but rather a wide range of traits. Narcissism in itself is neither strictly negative, nor positive. It's just what you do with it and who you affect with it. Another reason why they decided to do away with NPD all together. They realized some of the greatest leaders, not just in history, but currently in position of power in our society, fit the description.

And if you understand how everyone can be a narcissist, you shouldn't have a problem with understanding how M.J. or Ali can also fit the description. However, what I based it off of, wasn't just that. It was based off a lot of other papers written by a lot more educated people than me that have made the distinction between some of the greatest leaders, and narcissism.

Having said that, I should probably add this to the "evidence":

Newton: "I see myself not only as a football player, but an entertainer and icon.''

Newton: "I see myself not only as a football player, but an entertainer and icon.'' Ron Rivera, Chan Gailey, John Harbaugh blanch.

— Peter King (@SI_PeterKing)

February 22, 2011

Netwon: "It was between Mississipii State and Auburn, but as a whole Auburn possessed what's best for Cam Newton."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5909569

9166477-large.jpg

PS: Aside from the comments themselves, it's interesting to note he refers to himself in the third person.

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Wrong about what specifically?

You know what 2 things would help the discussion?

If you (a) were more specific

(b) were less contentious

Wrong about this:

This statement is obviously true and has been echoed by your boy Macoby when he discusses the 'inevitable cons' of narcissistic leaders.

or about this?

Where are the multiple credible sources that make the claim that the 'greatest leaders were narcissists'?

Because the only theory I've read in this thread espousing that claim is Macoby.

I'm still waiting to see these:

You're right.

I don't know how to argue/prove that the greatest leader aren't narcissists.

And I'm not going to try.

The burden of proof rests with you to prove that the 'greatest leaders' were narcissists.

Or:

C'mon dude really? Because I disagree with you I'm spouting my opinion as fact?

Also, please make accurate claims.

Re: Where have I said your sources aren't credible enough?

Your sources simply don't prove what you think they prove.

You posted various snippets of people talking about the leadership/narcissism but none save for Macoby have made the claim I disagree with. (Highlighted above in red)

I said a while ago, that I can easily accept that we disgaree on this issue.

And again like I ssaid before you might want to define what a leader/leadership means before even broaching the relationship between leaders/leadership and narcissism.

-Cheers

And why would I want to do what you suggest above?

Well fine we disagree on it, but I'd like to know the part we disagree on exactly? And if you disagree with Maccoby, and have a different view on narcissism, could you please point out to me one person you believe to be a narcissist and why, by your definition? And could you please explain to me, why your view on narcissism, makes it the accepted view, and your sources to back it up.

PS: I also urge you to read back a couple of pages in this thread before responding, because something tells me, I will have to re-post a lot of things I have already stated.

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Look, I don't give a rip about Macoby and splitting hairs about how we view "narcissism" to describe someone's personality. So speaking in terms of narcissistic traits having a positive influence in athlete's accomplishments, how many NFL players are taking advantage of this supposed edge? Sounds like an extremely select few if I'm understanding your point. This question exposes the problem with incorporating the term "narcissism" with healthy self-confidence, exemplary determination, and acknowledgement of superior skills that NFL players have. If you want to say that the difference between the good NFL players and the great NFL players is narcissism, then you have a real problem backing it up. On top of that, you don't know any of these people on a personal level, so any speculation isn't simply "opinion" but unsubstantiated opinion.

Starters in the NFL are already provided the respect, admiration, positive reinforcement and hero worship that could feed a narcissistic personality. That doesn't mean that they have one, even if you want to believe they do.

NFL players appearing to have inflated self-confidence isn't strange at all, in fact, it's expected at some level.

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Look, I don't give a rip about Macoby and splitting hairs about how we view "narcissism" to describe someone's personality. So speaking in terms of narcissistic traits having a positive influence in athlete's accomplishments, how many NFL players are taking advantage of this supposed edge? Sounds like an extremely select few if I'm understanding your point. This question exposes the problem with incorporating the term "narcissism" with healthy self-confidence, exemplary determination, and acknowledgement of superior skills that NFL players have. If you want to say that the difference between the good NFL players and the great NFL players is narcissism, then you have a real problem backing it up. On top of that, you don't know any of these people on a personal level, so any speculation isn't simply "opinion" but unsubstantiated opinion.

Starters in the NFL are already provided the respect, admiration, positive reinforcement and hero worship that could feed a narcissistic personality. That doesn't mean that they have one, even if you want to believe they do.[

NFL players appearing to have inflated self-confidence isn't strange at all, in fact, it's expected at some level.

I don't know why you mention Maccoby, but precisely dude. They're all a bunch of narcissists. But there is no problem with incorporating narcissism with healthy self-confidence, because once again: they are interchangeable. One and the same. You keep missing this: narcissism can be defined as either. And there are probably very few NFL or professional athletes that I would not label as narcissists.

And I agree, the difference between a good and great, isn't simply narcissism. Obviously you need to back it up with ability. What I'm saying is the difference between the ones that are simply great and the ones that leave a footprint and go above and beyond the sport....is that they are highly driven by their narcissistic behavior to achieve greatness beyond just simple ability. And in order for a human being to do that, they have to first and foremost believe it. Anyone that's ever achieved true greatness, believed it so.

Tom Brady isn't in it just to win it at this point. The reason he is so consistent is also because he wants to be one one of the greatest QBs there ever was. What I'm saying about Newton, is he reminds me of someone like that, but more along the lines of Ali, or Jordan. I don't see him as a Brady. Brady's all about stats, consistency and intelligence. If I was to characterize Brady he would fall under: Intellectual cerebral narcissist which is why gets along so great with the other intellectual cerebral narcissist in his organization, his coach: Bill Belichick.

Newton is a charismatic narcissist and I actually very much agree with his own definition: “I see myself not only as a football player, but an entertainer and icon.”

I believe he's going to spill over outside of what's currently going on in the NFL, and entertain, and leave an imprint much like Ali, much like Jordan. He has that type of grandiosity about him. That he can do things we just have not seen on that field from a QB. He will do things that media will love to televise.

BTW, I should mention I am not a pioneer in making such a statement and using it to make an assumption of the future. Plenty of people with a good understanding of narcissism can make predictive assumptions about their behavior.

Take this article about Tiger Woods:

Tiger Woods is a Narcissist, Not a Sex Addict

What some refer to as a “sex addict” is actually a manifestation of narcissism. In other words, Tiger Woods is a classic narcissist who believes all (white) women desire him sexually because he feels his sexual prowess is superior. The narcissist attempts to prove his sexual superiority by engaging in a pattern of repeated sexual relationships with women with no emotional attachment.

When all is said and done, it will eventually come out that Tiger Woods has had multiple affairs with women while he’s been married. We only know of 3 women because only 3 have come forward.

http://sandrarose.com/2009/12/tiger-woods-is-a-narcissist-not-a-sex-addict/

Notice the date of the article: Saturday, December 5, 2009

The writer, having a good understanding of narcissism, predicted there would probably be a lot more women than just 3. She was right. What number are we at now: 30+?

She just happened to connect the dots, and decided to mainly focus on his personal life, which yes in society is seen as a negative(though I'm sure Tiger himself would disagree ;)). You can just as easily make assumptions and predictions about positive achievements. Truth was the more women he banged the better the dude played. The better he played the more he banged and so on. The only time he started nose diving is when the poo hit the fan, his wife found out, and he had to start being a good little boy. Messed up his "swing".

I know you may not like to hear it, because of your perception of narcissists, but every freaking great leader that ever lived was a big time narcissist. And most of them did do bad things as well. Somebody in their life usually had to bear the dark nature of their personality. And neither I, nor Maccoby, nor Freud were the first to think of this. I mean just Google the poo, damn.....it's that easy.

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<snip>

It may have been perceived as negative because it has previously only been mentioned when someone was diagnosed with NPD but it's not "mostly a negative trait". It can hardly be described as a trait at all but rather a wide range of traits. Narcissism in itself is neither strictly negative, nor positive. It's just what you do with it and who you affect with it. Another reason why they decided to do away with NPD all together. They realized some of the greatest leaders, not just in history, but currently in position of power in our society, fit the description.

<snip>

This is unsubstantiated BS and you have no clue about why Narcissistic Personality Disorder will be removed from the DSM-5....it sure ain't because "They realized some of the greatest leaders, not just in history, but currently in position of power in our society, fit the description."

Wow....I really didn't understand what I was getting into here...

Sorry for prolonging this.

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This is unsubstantiated BS and you have no clue about why Narcissistic Personality Disorder will be removed from the DSM-5....it sure ain't because "They realized some of the greatest leaders, not just in history, but currently in position of power in our society, fit the description."

Dude you keep talking like I am the authoritative source on the matter. I am not, and I don't pretend to be. I'm only telling you that which I have myself learned from others and by reading and passing it on. Yeah that's not a fact....I'm giving you my take on it, but I find it funny you say it's unsubstantiated BS, and then you go right into doing the same thing.

Are ya sure it "ain't"? I personally wouldn't be surprised to find out the director of the board read the manual and then went...."Crap...that's me! Ok, this one's gotta go." Or maybe Obama gave him a call. I don't freaking know. ;)

....damn....one last thing....diluting "narcissism" to mean self-confidence, normal self-love and acknowledgement of exemplary skill doesn't do anything but cloud the definition....

I'm not diluting narcissism.....that's how it is defined by them, not me and it doesn't just mean that. If you have a problem with it, write to American Psychological Association (APA) and tell them to change the damn definition.

You want their email address?

PS: If you have a problem with me saying Cam Newton is a full blown narcissist, you'd hang me if I told you who I thought the biggest narcissist to walk the planet was....and I mean he the fits the definition to the T.

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I get it...opinions can't be challenged because they are, like, your opinion, man.....but I am sure that your opinion about the reasoning for removal of NPD from the DSM-5 is wrong. As far as saying Narcissism means "self-confidence, normal self-love and acknowledgement of exemplary skill" is within the definition according to the APA, I don't know about that...do you think that is something to e-mail them about? Really?....BTW, I enjoyed the article by E! magazine....

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I get it...opinions can't be challenged because they are, like, your opinion, man.....but I am sure that your opinion about the reasoning for removal of NPD from the DSM-5 is wrong. As far as saying Narcissism means "self-confidence, normal self-love and acknowledgement of exemplary skill" is within the definition according to the APA, I don't know about that...do you think that is something to e-mail them about? Really?....BTW, I enjoyed the article by E! magazine....

In psychology, the term is used to describe both normal self-love and unhealthy self-absorption due to a disturbance in the sense of self.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

Or perhaps you want to read about it directly from them:

Five studies established that normal narcissism is correlated with good psychological health. Specifically, narcissism is (a) inversely related to daily sadness and dispositional depression, (b) inversely related to daily and dispositional loneliness, © positively related to daily and dispositional subjective well-being as well as couple well-being, (d) inversely related to daily anxiety, and (e) inversely related to dispositional neuroticism. More important, self-esteem fully accounted for the relation between narcissism and psychological health. Thus, narcissism is beneficial for psychological health only insofar as it is associated with high self-esteem

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/psp/87/3/400/

Really. Don't worry by 2020, they'll finally come full circle and catch up to the Ancient Greeks.

But then they would also have to expose the biggest narcissist that ever walked the face of the earth and I think(being careful this time) that's probably whats held them back so far: Jesus Christ; the only man whose narcissism was so great, so amazing not only did he believe it, he actually somehow managed to get himself recognized as God, by almost all of mankind. He was close...but I think we can do even better now that Cam Newton is here;)

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