A few thoughts everyone should remember about Sunday

[frash.exe]

well according to pffl and the sources that back him up (wink wink merriam webster) cam apparently secretly wants to have sex with himself, so he might as well be citing yahoo answers atp

[Fiz]

this argument is a really good example of a bad thing that im going to try to put to words.

there are clearly people in this thread that have studied psychology in a formal setting. pf4l has clearly not, though he feels he's just as educated about it because he can pull up things on the internet.

he's not using a limitless information source to actually educate himself. instead he's working from an incredibly narrow and limited understanding and using the internet wherever he can to support it.

raging bull and floppin aren't convincing because they don't have dozens of links to dogpile.com

this is symptomatic of nearly every major debate where the public disbelieves the majority consensus of experts in whatever field.

[chef17]

guys cam newton is a massive narcissist.

my source? he's tapping into the mind of CERTAIN NARCISSIST Alexander the Great when he sleeps. He's sucking his life energy through the dream world and assimilating it into his own.

Don't believe me? Heh. maybe you should read some Jung, or, I dunno, check this good post from forums.mylittlepony.com

:smilielol5:

[PantherFanForLife]

This will be my last post on the subject as I know you will keep arguing to get in the last word as if somehow that makes you right. I doubt it will make a difference but here goes.

Narcissism and Narcissistic personality disorder are commonly used interchangeably and not in a positive manner. Terms such as confident, empathetic, etc are used instead of nacsissism to describe the positive end of the spectrum.

As Fiz pointed out most of the tenets of psychoanalysis have been largely abandoned by most pyschologists. Freud was a good observer of behavior but ascribed most tendencies toward repressed sexual feeling which mirrors the general sexual repression of the era in which he lived and practiced at the turn of the century. The things still deemed valuable such as defense mechanisms were actually ascribed to his daughter Anna not Sigmund himself.

Even you have used aspects of them interchangeably demonstrating either your lack of understanding or more likely that they in fact describing the same psychological construct.

For my part I told you pages ago that if you want to define them in the broadest terms they can seen as positive or negative but in the connotation you used in your initial post, you were mixing them up as good and bad elements which was confusing normal narcissism with NPD.

And it isn't simply a matter of how much you have but the psychological manifestations or symptoms present and the reason for the need to be narcissistic, ie. the extent to which you have a healthy and normal ego versus an impaired and dysfunctional self image.

So feel free to pontificate endlessly but do so knowing that it will sway no one and no matter your ongoing debate, you are not rooted in sound psychological theory or practice.

Ok first of all I'm only going to talk about what's relevant. And the only thing in your post relevant to this discussion, is simply the fact that you continue to contradict yourself and make yourself look bad, and no matter how many people you have agreeing, it doesn't change the fact that you still don't understand that confidence, and empathetic characteristics are not used instead of Narcissism. They are completely freaking different. A narcissist isn't primarily defined as a person who is confident and empathetic, no matter which sources you want to look at, wikipedia, your SPAM site, dictionary.com. Freud, your phd boy...it doesn't matter....a narcissist in the simplest of terms is someone who has very high admiration for oneself and is in love with themselves.

However, I actually made a very clear distinction in my initial post between NPD and narcissism through the use of two different types of athletes and specifically stated it could go either way. I never once denied the relationship between narcissism and NPD. In fact I specifically gave examples of athletes with what I believed to be simply narcissistic and those that ended up "developing NPD" such as O.J. Simpson. It's a very fine line between the two and a person that actually ends up being diagnosed with NPD, is usually only when a person that does something that society considers a crime or begins on a path of self-destruction.

So here it is for you to re-read now that you actually have a somewhat decent understanding of narcissism.

In fact, one of my biggest fears with Cam as far as long term durability, and for some reason it's what brought on the biggest concern when I first saw him....is that he remind me of O.J. Simpson in a lot of ways. And other stars, such as Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali(think more along this line of cockiness) but more so O.J. and maybe because they also look a bit similar and played the same sport. People only remember OJ nowadays for his infamous acts, than the ones that made him famous in the first place and no one ever talks about anymore, which is also my reason of concern for athletes like this. And I'm going to tell you why Cam reminds me of these guys.

What the coaches, like Rivera was talking about when comparing him to Gabbert and why they went with him for example....the "it", the "extra something" he really couldn't explain. The reason so many people are instantly drawn to him.

Cam's confidence isn't an accident. It's also not a result of controlled modesty. There's something else I see in Cam, and I saw in him from the first moment I saw a picture of him. The confidence in his eyes, the smile, the smirk, the stance. It something that's going to come out later, and it WILL probably draw a lot of haters. It's usually seen as a negative...but to me, it's the one thing that all the greatest leaders and athletes of the world have always had: narcissism. Cam, is a full blown narcissist trying to be good at the moment. Just like O.J. Just like Michael Jordan. Just like Muhammad Ali. I have no doubt in this.

The moment this kid gets 3-4 wins, you're going to see even more of that. I could be wrong, but if I am right, I expect Cam Newton to be something a little greater than even a great QB.

He's already dazzling much the same way those other guys did when they arrived on the big stage, doing things that just had not been seen up to that point. The problem with a guy like this, and what we saw with O.J., is that it really matters what supporting cast he has around him, and how solid their personal lives are. Because they do amazing things, but if some event goes wrong, or they lose their focus, it can spell chaos and a downfall that's just as dazzling and usually ends in some kind of tragedy. With guys like Ali, it unfortunately ended up in a disease from not knowing when to quit.

I get a feeling from Cam that he's one of those once in a generation type of athlete. They just keep rising, and rising and rising. He may not have a 15 year career at QB. His growth curve will likely look different than that of a guy like Manning. Where's as many grow to a certain point and then stays there....someone like Cam just keeps rising up to a peak above and beyond what anyone's ever done and then he either gets out or crashes hard. His personality will also not likely be that of a humble servant like Manning, but rather a show off like Muhammad Ali(that smirk is this waiting to explode, he just knows he needs the wins to do it). Ideally, the constant rise, spans over a long period of time. He may only have a 5-10 year career at most. But he's the type of guy with the potential to change the game in that time span. The type of guy that just dominates the game he plays at and when he leaves it just kind of leaves a big whole where he was at.

What happens after he reaches his peak and how long it takes to get there(the longer the better)....that's where you have to have concern. He could either be a Michael or an O.J./Ali. Michael was smart and got out while he was on top. That's usually key. They do not take it well if they ever lose the spotlight, the support of the fans, or the cast. But what you get out of him in the mean time is crazy ability and growth that will do whatever is necessary to make sure he's always at the top of the game and prove his critics(which he will purposely create at times) wrong. He always wants to make you, me and the rest of his fans go WOW and his critics bite their fist(that's who the smirk is for). And he will do whatever the heck it takes to make sure he never loses that support. Because he feeds off of it.

That's what drives him. He really does want to be better than Brady. And if it was up to him, it would be NOW! Not next year. Now. That's the kind of guy he is. In the first game against Arizona, when he dived over the pile....the frontal flip was NOT an accident. Neither were the jukes in the second game. That was Cam showing off. You know how Michael used to show off and made showing off during dunking become a new sport on its own? I expect to see similar things from Cam and it's something we haven't really seen from QBs(mostly receivers).

And yes, Brady is right...you can't teach that. You're usually born and then bred into that role and then you just run with it.

That's the kind of athlete I believe I'm seeing in Cam Newton. That's just the vibe I get from him. Maybe it's what I want to see. But I had that vibe back when I didn't even like him or thought he should be on this team. I could always see the narcissist in Newton. I see him as the type of guy that will say "I am the best" and somehow he will get most people to nod their head in agreement much like Ali did because he will usually back it up. He's also going to have a lot of haters, which is what he wants because he also needs a constant cast of doubters to prove wrong. Now I could be completely wrong myself, and he may just end up being a great, solid, steady franchise QB. But something tells me, that's not Cam Newton's path in the NFL. Whatever it will look like, I think it will be a fun and exciting ride.

[frash.exe]

pffl where is your citation from urbandictionary.com/narcissism in mla format

[PantherFanForLife]

this argument is a really good example of a bad thing that im going to try to put to words.

there are clearly people in this thread that have studied psychology in a formal setting. pf4l has clearly not, though he feels he's just as educated about it because he can pull up things on the internet.

he's not using a limitless information source to actually educate himself. instead he's working from an incredibly narrow and limited understanding and using the internet wherever he can to support it.

raging bull and floppin aren't convincing because they don't have dozens of links to dogpile.com

this is symptomatic of nearly every major debate where the public disbelieves the majority consensus of experts in whatever field.

Clearly. And the ones that have studied it in a formal settings, studied at carolinahuddle.com and 50 posts later still can't spout out the definition of narcissism and have no freaking idea what they are talking about.

This reminds me of nothing more than an argument I had with a bunch of you last year when I was posting Matt Moore's W-L records in 2009 showing you why he is a "winning" QB and backing it up with actual numbers from the league while the rest of you continued to prove me wrong by "telling" me how Clausen is a winning QB and Moore sucks.

And you were right then too, because there were a lot of you.

[4Corners]

pffl where is your citation from urbandictionary.com/narcissism in mla format

No, his source was Dr. Nick Riviera.

[frash.exe]

No, his source was Dr.Nick Riviera.

i could do some preliminary research and destroy pffl's argument, but he's the only one in this thread not getting it and i'm not sure how to explain it in a way he can understand (e.g. linking to shitty sites that community college humanities professors would reject, sporadic bolded words, underlined words, whole capitalized words)

[frash.exe]

advice for PFFL

1. stop posting

2. take up a career in typography

[PantherFanForLife]

i could do some preliminary research and destroy pffl's argument, but he's the only one in this thread not getting it and i'm not sure how to explain it in a way he can understand (e.g. linking to pooty sites that community college humanities professors would reject, sporadic bolded words, underlined words, whole capitalized words)

Please do it. Do you even know what my argument is?

The only linking to bad sites, was by panthers55 to a spam site....get your facts right.

[frash.exe]

Please do it. Do you even know what my argument is?

The only linking to bad sites, was by PFF to a spam site....get your facts right.

your thesis statement/paragraph/tldr wall of text

Cam's confidence isn't an accident. It's also not a result of controlled modesty. There's something else I see in Cam, and I saw in him from the first moment I saw a picture of him. The confidence in his eyes, the smile, the smirk, the stance. It something that's going to come out later, and it WILL probably draw a lot of haters. It's usually seen as a negative...but to me, it's the one thing that all the greatest leaders and athletes of the world have always had: narcissism. Cam, is a full blown narcissist trying to be good at the moment. Just like O.J. Just like Michael Jordan. Just like Muhammad Ali. I have no doubt in this.

great thesis right there. Assuming, without concrete proof, Michael Jordan and Muhammad Ali are diagnosed narcissists. Making the connection to cam. Usage of the word "haters". Did you get that opinion from bleacher report?

the point is that it is not even worth refuting because you've created this pillow fort of a belief system of superficial observations supported by unreliable or archaic sources that you refuse to admit is poo and abandon, like 94% of all the other arguments made on this forum

[PantherFanForLife]

your thesis statement/paragraph/tldr wall of text

great thesis right there. Assuming, without concrete proof, Michael Jordan and Muhammad Ali are diagnosed narcissists. Making the connection to cam. Usage of the word "haters". Did you get that opinion from bleacher report?

the point is that it is not even worth refuting because you've created this pillow fort of a belief system of superficial observations supported by unreliable or archaic sources that you refuse to admit is poo and abandon, like 94% of all the other arguments made on this forum

Wow. LOL.

So basically, no, you can't. My sources are archaic and unreliable poo and yours are.....?

If you really wanna keep talking about how much you know of this subject and I don't, you should probably stop saying things such as diagnosed as a narcissist. Diagnosed is a clinical term, and in psychology or psychiatrist, the only thing that ever gets diagnosed is a narcissistic personality disorder, or NPD.

Narcissists do not get "diagnosed" as narcissists because they are typically regular members of society who just display a whole bunch of narcissistic traits. That's what makes them just plain narcissists.

Perhaps you meant identifying a narcissist?

[teeray]

Even by the definitions PFFL provided Cam doesn't fall subject to any of them so his whole argument is debunked in the first place.

If it makes you feel better PFFL you are right I misread the definition earlier and you are right about having an "infantile level of personality development". My apologies on that.

As far as your definition on narcissism as a whole I don't think Cam exhibits those characteristics and am positive that by the definitions you provided that Cam is indeed not a narcissist.

So congratulations on schooling people on narcissism (in your opinion). But you also disproved your own original theory.

[PantherFanForLife]

Even by the definitions PFFL provided Cam doesn't fall subject to any of them so his whole argument is debunked in the first place.

If it makes you feel better PFFL you are right I misread the definition earlier and you are right about having an "infantile level of personality development". My apologies on that.

As far as your definition on narcissism as a whole I don't think Cam exhibits those characteristics and am positive that by the definitions you provided that Cam is indeed not a narcissist.

So congratulations on schooling people on narcissism (in your opinion). But you also disproved your own original theory.

I did? Care to explain for me? Or is this just your opinion?