Peppers and Cutler some thoughts

[CharlotteBeer.com]

Given Fireball's post I'd say that she covers that question quite well...

My point in pointing those two players out was to get a better idea of her definition of a "franchise quarterback." Few would argue that Brees is not one of the best at his position in the league, let alone a franchise quarterback. But when it's all said and done, the Saints finished 8-8, despite Brees nearly breaking Marino's passing record.

Jake Delhomme, on the other hand, rarely "put the team on his back" last season. The defense was good for the first eight games before wearing down. The running game, obviously, was phenomenal.

I would also argue that our receiving corps is better than Denver's as a whole, but that's another discussion. A good quarterback makes his receivers look good, and vice versa. (See Cutler/Royal, Delhomme/Smith, respectively).

I'll concede that Cutler, at this stage in his career, is no where near the leader or team player that Jake Delhomme is. But I think he has far more talent than Delhomme. And I'm a fan of Jake. I just think we'd be crazy not to make a move for Cutler if it was within the realm of possibility.

[Cyberjag]

Ryan Leaf had more physical talent than Peyton Manning.

[Fireball77]

Honestly, I'm not being snotty here, what talent do you think Cutler has that's so great? He has a big time arm, and he is more accurate than Jake (I think it is mostly in a Favrian type way, in other words the fact his arm is so strong allows him to put some throws in there he shouldn't be able to). He has a bit more athletic ability. A guy with that and a 10 cent head? No thanks. Remember, this is the guy whose performance faded down the stretch when his team needed only 1 win to lock up a playoff berth, was second in league lead in INTs, had a worse INT % than Jake did, and I believe he threw 4 RZ ints and 4 inside his own 20 and per KC Joyner's metrics was the worst decision maker in the league....so he hasn't proven that he has a good head for the game or situations either. So basically he has a better arm, he's younger but is worse in every other way...and youth and a better arm are not enough for me to want to trade away whatever for him and pay him a new big $$ contract.

[mantal]

Ryan Leaf had more physical talent than Peyton Manning.

Duck...

[monstercat]

Ryan Leaf had more physical talent than Peyton Manning.

I thought Jeff George had more physical talent than both of them. That guy could throw it 40yds downfield on a frozen rope.

Honeslty, I thought Jeff George was as close to a sure thing as you could possibly get when he first came in the league. If it weren't for him, I wouldn't be skeptical of Cutler at all.

It just scares me that it looks like Cutler could go either way at this point. He could be Peyton Manning...he could be Jeff George. It's a gamble, whether some people want to admit it or not.

[Cyberjag]

David Carr has more physical talent than Jake Delhomme.

[Udogg]

Honestly, I'm not being snotty here, what talent do you think Cutler has that's so great? He has a big time arm, and he is more accurate than Jake (I think it is mostly in a Favrian type way, in other words the fact his arm is so strong allows him to put some throws in there he shouldn't be able to). He has a bit more athletic ability. A guy with that and a 10 cent head? No thanks. Remember, this is the guy whose performance faded down the stretch when his team needed only 1 win to lock up a playoff berth, was second in league lead in INTs, had a worse INT % than Jake did, and I believe he threw 4 RZ ints and 4 inside his own 20 and per KC Joyner's metrics was the worst decision maker in the league....so he hasn't proven that he has a good head for the game or situations either. So basically he has a better arm, he's younger but is worse in every other way...and youth and a better arm are not enough for me to want to trade away whatever for him and pay him a new big $$ contract.

ON FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!:yesnod:

[Fireball77]

That's probably true actually about Leaf and Manning. That's why there was a big debate over which one would go first. But Leaf had a 10 cent head. Buh-bye. CANNOT HAVE A TEN CENT HEAD AND BE A VALUABLE QB IN MY BOOK. Ever. Look at Aaron Brooks. Tons of ability athletically...10 cent head. In fact, Brooks' "TALENT" blinded his HC to his complete inability to be a good QB. Tim Couch-10 cent head. The list goes on and on. Bernie Kosar was the ugliest looking QB ever but he was pretty damn good in his day.

Then again, I would take Chad Pennington any day over a guy like Cutler. Penny's rock steady mentally and very smart and a great leader.

[panthers55]

My point in pointing those two players out was to get a better idea of her definition of a "franchise quarterback." Few would argue that Brees is not one of the best at his position in the league, let alone a franchise quarterback. But when it's all said and done, the Saints finished 8-8, despite Brees nearly breaking Marino's passing record.

Jake Delhomme, on the other hand, rarely "put the team on his back" last season. The defense was good for the first eight games before wearing down. The running game, obviously, was phenomenal.

I would also argue that our receiving corps is better than Denver's as a whole, but that's another discussion. A good quarterback makes his receivers look good, and vice versa. (See Cutler/Royal, Delhomme/Smith, respectively).

I'll concede that Cutler, at this stage in his career, is no where near the leader or team player that Jake Delhomme is. But I think he has far more talent than Delhomme. And I'm a fan of Jake. I just think we'd be crazy not to make a move for Cutler if it was within the realm of possibility.

Jake may not have carried anyone but I bet he had as many or more fourth quarter comebacks than any other quarterback in the league last year. Surely more than Cutler.

I agree that Cutler has more talent but that alone isn't always enough to win. As for making a move for him, how would we do that as long as we have Peppers? We couldn't afford him unless we trade Peppers for him and right now Peppers is entertaining places that suit him not us. By the time that gets worked out Cutler will be gone. Plus I am not convinced that he would fit here. Can you see him being happy throwing 25 times a game for 17 completions a game?

[carpanfan96]

That's probably true actually about Leaf and Manning. That's why there was a big debate over which one would go first. But Leaf had a 10 cent head. Buh-bye. CANNOT HAVE A TEN CENT HEAD AND BE A VALUABLE QB IN MY BOOK. Ever. Look at Aaron Brooks. Tons of ability athletically...10 cent head. In fact, Brooks' "TALENT" blinded his HC to his complete inability to be a good QB. Tim Couch-10 cent head. The list goes on and on. Bernie Kosar was the ugliest looking QB ever but he was pretty damn good in his day.

Then again, I would take Chad Pennington any day over a guy like Cutler. Penny's rock steady mentally and very smart and a great leader.

Agreed, I don't understand the talk about Cutler, Imo Jake is the QB for this team till he decides to hang it up. It's not always about talent, sometimes it's about heart, or smarts or being a leader. Jake is this team's leader and the players stick by his side and support him, what more could want from a qb for a team with a run first mentality. He will be more consistent next season, part of his inconsistency last season was due to the surgery. (happens a lot in the first year after the surgery.) We also have too many holes to be trading potential picks away for a guy who is only a slight upgrade overall with all the negatives and positives weighed equally.

[mantal]

David Carr has more physical talent than Jake Delhomme.

OK, now you're just baiting...

[BlindSite]

That's probably true actually about Leaf and Manning. That's why there was a big debate over which one would go first. But Leaf had a 10 cent head. Buh-bye. CANNOT HAVE A TEN CENT HEAD AND BE A VALUABLE QB IN MY BOOK. Ever. Look at Aaron Brooks. Tons of ability athletically...10 cent head. In fact, Brooks' "TALENT" blinded his HC to his complete inability to be a good QB. Tim Couch-10 cent head. The list goes on and on. Bernie Kosar was the ugliest looking QB ever but he was pretty damn good in his day.

Then again, I would take Chad Pennington any day over a guy like Cutler. Penny's rock steady mentally and very smart and a great leader.

Pennington also wouldn't have the arm strength to operate in our offense, not only that but he's a veteran, of course he's going to be better used to handling the media, or did you forget his meltdown berating the press in 2004 on 3 separate occasions... He's really a shining example of how to behave... He did the exact same thing then that Cutler has done now, and now you're saying he's a shining example of how to behave, that he's smart, a great leader and rock steady... not exactly.

It's a low move to compare him to couch and leaf, especially because he's vastly out performed them in his first three years anyway.

Besides, players don't care all that much about what is said in the media between a guy and his front office, it's none of their business anyway. They care if a player comes out says something about another player, but not if a guy is talking to the front office or about the coach. What they care about is what that guy does on sunday and Jay Cutler is probably one of the toughest players in the NFL.

You want to talk about mental toughness. After all the mess with the rumors had quietened down, after the coach and GM had made public comments about it all, Cutler called them, HE set up the meeting, HE went, HE apologised, HE was ready to move on and McDaniels didn't even apologise McDaniels didn't offer to bury the hatchet or mend the fence, his head coach said to him, "yeah I wanted another guy".

Cutler could've held out, refused to visit the facility, but he went back, and he tried to patch things up and the coach and the team made a poor effort. After the meeting Cutler hung around, hoping McDaniels would reconsider what he said, so that he and Cutler could smooth things over just the two of them, but his coach didn't want to.

What a weak minded guy he must be, lets break down his performance:

sticks with a pathetic college team and fights hard week in and out, never once blaming his line, his team or his coaches.

He goes to one of the toughest markets for a QB in the NFL and he plays well for three years, with a defense, running game and offensive line falling apart around him,

his coach is fired, his team mates get arrested, into trouble and some leave and he still comes to work everyday without major complaint.

His team tries to acquire another quarterback and he says, well I'm sorry for my part lets move on and his coach won't apologise and put it behind them and you wonder why he doesn't want to remain in denver?

What would you have the guy do...

This guy has been a model team mate, he's been the model of maturity and now when everything lets him down and he looks to leave, leave a team that doesn't want him anyway, something that NEVER ends well in the NFL, HE's is the problem and he's a child and all of a sudden after being the best young quarterback in the NFL, that makes him a worse option than Jake Delhomme, or for that matter Tim Couch....

Great logic...

[Cyberjag]

Fireball77 has more physical talent than Mintal.

[Cyberjag]

This guy has been a model team mate, he's been the model of maturity and now when everything lets him down and he looks to leave HE's is the problem and he is a child and all of a sudden that makes him a worse option than Jake Delhomme, or for that matter Tim Couch....

Great logic...

I wouldn't say he's been a model teammate. I also don't read into FB's posts the same stuff that you do. I also think that she's right.

Cutler may be an improvement over Jake, but I don't think he would be enough of one to justify pulling the trigger right now.