Peppers and Cutler some thoughts

[Fiz]

If you can't state your case without being a complete asshole to everyone who disagrees with you everytime, we can give you a vacation from the site.

State your opinion, but lay off the attacts on others. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

It's very simple.

You really look like kids fighting over the sandlot. Please stop it.

lol go ahead then you can have an entire board of people making repeat threads about what they heard woody paige say on cold pizza

everyone who catches hell from me deserves it. just because you jingle keys at each other in the lounge doesn't mean they don't have awful opinions that don't deserve civility.

[BlindSite]

Exactly.

For me, is isn't even a case of Cutler vs Delhomme. Take Delhomme completely out of the equation. Having seen and read plenty on Cutler, I've pretty much come to conclude that I would not want him on the Panthers at all.

He's essentially Jeff George Part Deux. Plenty of teams took a look at George and plenty of fanbases said "it'll be different when he plays for us". In the end, that worked out about as well as it does for the women who date the cheater and say "but he won't cheat on me, he loves me"

In 2007, it was David Carr. This year, it's Jay Cutler. I wonder who the next anointed "save us from Jake" QB will be. I also wonder how many people will change their tune and proclaim that Cutler sucks if he's traded to Tampa.

God the stupidity on the board when it comes to Jay Cutler is insane.

Intriguing prospect with substantial upside with refined technique and better weapons at the pro level. Showed tremendous leadership and toughness at Vandy while setting numerous school records.

Has a very strong arm...Good size...Pretty good athlete who is able to move a little...Sports a quick delivery with good accuracy...Patient player who will go through his progressions...Tough guy who will hang in the pocket and take a hit...Throws well on the move...Strong and durable with a lot of experience...A team leader with top intangibles...A gamer who comes up big in the clutch.

Pros: Confident in the pocket. Can you hurt you with his arms or legs. Not afraid to take a hit and stand in the pocket, but can run if needed. Has great strength and proven leadership. His deep ball is good and his instinct is even greater. Great roll out passer.

Cons: Hasn't played with a solid team. Needs to stay in the pocket more and develop and a NFL passer.

Overall: Great leader with unlimited potential. Should be top 5-7 pick. Will contribute early and will make people forget Leinart and Young. Very mature and experienced. Plays more like Steve Young then Brett Favre to me

General Traits:

Cutler has risen among the NFL ranks during the 2008 season. The addition of receiver Eddie Royal, coupled with Brandon Marshall, has given Cutler a solid duo at receiver for the first time in his young career. Cutler has overcome Type 1 diabetes to be considered the best young quarterback in the game. His touch, athleticism and arm strength make him an exciting threat with the ball. Cutler has a knack for making the big play, but is very accurate and throws a catchable ball. His leadership is unquestioned, and many point to his working with Marshall and tight end Tony Scheffler in the off-season as the turning point in his career.

eam guy all the way

The pressure Cutler faced at Vanderbilt included enduring 33 sacks during the 2004 season. But those sacks don't mean Cutler can't run. He ran for 314 yards per season.

"He knew he was going to have to get bigger and stronger to weather all those hits. He never backed off," Vandy head coach Bobby Johnson says. "Sometimes he tried to run over guys. We tried to get that out of him. He's not a 'protect me' kind of guy. He'll stand up and say, 'I can handle it.' "

Cutler says that ruggedness stems in part from being a two-way player in high school, playing safety on defense.

"It makes you tougher. You just have a different attitude," says Cutler. "You go out there, you don't worry about getting hit. You just pop back up. Some guys who are quarterbacks all their life don't know what it's like to get hit."

But Vanderbilt center Trey Holloway says Cutler's best attribute is being a good teammate. The two roomed together in the summer of 2004, and Cutler regularly opened the doors of the five-bedroom house he rented with teammates to freshmen who needed a place to stay.

"In summer, there would be nine guys or so," says Holloway. "He's a guy who understands that everybody needs to be together in the summer."

On the field, says Holloway, "Some of the protection we've given him has been a little shaky, and he's never said a word about it. He's a guy who never once had complained about the things that have happened to him."

And who also likely won't have much to complain about on draft day.

Everyone said he had leadership qualities while coming out, everyone thinks he's probably the best quarterback drafted in the last three years currently in the NFL and everyone who knows anything about the NFL would agree with the sentiment that any team, without an already established, proven and promising future at quarterback would be in an excellent position if they acquired cutler.

You don't think he's a leader because he is unhappy in denver, or because he lost a couple of games here and there.

Do you really want to go through what Delhomme has cost us over the years. I love delhomme but I'm sick of not knowing what we're going to get out of the QB position week to week. Cutler might not be perfect but he's far superior to delhomme and he's certainly got the intangibles to take this team to a title game.

[Woodie]

Probably because the few people here who currently don't want to exchange cutler for delhomme are the only people who know anything about the NFL who wouldn't take that swap in a heart beat.

Secondly, the debate I started is not necessarily about if Cutler is coming here, but that if he is available and the organisation really wants that ring, they ought be trying to move heaven an earth to at least find out what it would take.

Jeez, you're the second person to tell me this is not about if Cutler is coming here or not. I think I give people on this board too much credit sometimes. The point is that people keep arguing about a player that has and will not have any ties to the Panthers. And it is being argued in the context of whether or not the Panthers should make a play for him.

If it was a rational discussion it might be interesting, but it has devolved into a common internet argument with nobody giving an inch and based too much on emotion. Too many "you don't know anything about the NFL" or "you're an idiot" type comments. It's obvious nobody is going to change anyone's mind, so why keep arguing, particularly with the escalation of insults? It's pointless.

[Mr. Scot]

God the stupidity on the board when it comes to Jay Cutler is insane.

Everyone said he had leadership qualities while coming out, everyone thinks he's probably the best quarterback drafted in the last three years currently in the NFL and everyone who knows anything about the NFL would agree with the sentiment that any team, without an already established, proven and promising future at quarterback would be in an excellent position if they acquired cutler.

You don't think he's a leader because he is unhappy in denver, or because he lost a couple of games here and there.

Do you really want to go through what Delhomme has cost us over the years. I love delhomme but I'm sick of not knowing what we're going to get out of the QB position week to week. Cutler might not be perfect but he's far superior to delhomme and he's certainly got the intangibles to take this team to a title game.

He hasn't even led them to a playoff win yet (or a playoff game for that matter).

Most of what you've got there is comments about Cutler the college player. Here are a few about Cutler the pro.

So, after having his new bosses go behind his back, Jay Cutler is demanding a trade? While there’s a lot of reasons why the Jets should trade for Cutler (performance, cannon arm, etc.) just know that he’s not well respected by his peers.

“He’s a great quarterback, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying anything to disrespect him. I think he’s a hell of a player. But Jeff George was a hell of a player. There’s a lot of guys who have been great players.” — Jake Plummer on Cutler, comparing him to one of the cockiest & best athletes who never got it together

“He is a punk. I’m just not a huge fan of his … he and Tony Gonzalez are the biggest crybabies in the league ” — Matt Wilhelm Chargers LB

“Cutler is the one who was grabbing his crotch [last season] and saying stuff to Philip [Rivers] in the first place. He started the whole thing.” — Unnamed Chargers Player on 2007 feud between Rivers and Cutler

“Word out of Denver is that he’s largely disliked by his own team, due to a terminal bout of arrogance.” - Pete Kotz, Nashville Scene (Cutler went to Vandy)

“I don’t like him, I don’t want to talk about him.” — Kerry Rhodes, Jets S

Jay Cutler Stamping his feet and holding his breath

And these were compiled by a guy who wants the Jets to pursue Cutler.

And again, it isn't just the media stuff. The Peter King report that he privately demanded a trade after his QB coach was let go, prior to the Cassel thing, and then got indignant when the story broke that the team tried to trade him has "drama queen" written all over it.

Like I said before, loads of people thought Jeff George would be "different" if he played for their team. It never happened.

If you want Cutler for athleticism alone, that I can understand. May not agree with it, but I can understand it. But intangibles? Not exactly Cutler's strong suit.

[BlindSite]

He hasn't even led them to a playoff win yet (or a playoff game for that matter).

Most of what you've got there is comments about Cutler the college player. Here are a few about Cutler the pro.

Jay Cutler Stamping his feet and holding his breath

And these were compiled by a guy who wants the Jets to pursue Cutler.

And again, it isn't just the media stuff. The Peter King report that he privately demanded a trade after his QB coach was let go, prior to the Cassel thing, and then got indignant when the story broke that the team tried to trade him has "drama queen" written all over it.

Like I said before, loads of people thought Jeff George would be "different" if he played for their team. It never happened.

If you want Cutler for athleticism alone, that I can understand. May not agree with it, but I can understand it. But intangibles? Not exactly Cutler's strong suit.

You quote the guy he replaced, divisional rivals and another safety who was torched by Cutler.

Excellent selection of people there.

You're going to blame cutler for the last three seasons?

He arrived and started into the season as a rookie, which 99% of time is par for the course. In the second season his offensive line and running game died, his wide receivers either retired (Rod Smith) or went nuts (Walker) and only one guy played well (Marshall). Then last year his defense was worse than it ever has been, the running game died through injuries, he had a lame duck head coach and his receivers again went crazy.

You're blaming a guy for not taking a rebuilding team to the playoffs. This is like blaming DeAngelo Williams for losing against Arizona, he was one of the few who did their best and was effective.

Denver has been losing in spite of Cutler's performance, not because of it.

[Delhommey]

If there's one thing the Giants, Colts and Steelers have shown us, it's that you can't win with a pouty or immature QB, or even one that calls out his teammates publically.

[PntherPryd]

If Cutler comes to Carolina, he is the second coming.

If Cutler stays in Denver or goes anywhere else he's a punk. A talented punk, but a punk.

If Cutler goes to Tampa he's a motherfugin' CANCER.

It is the law of fanaticism.

[panthers55]

This is the 78th post in a thread that is totally irrelevant. Cutler isn't going to come here. Asking for a trade and getting it are 2 very different things. Plus teams like Tampa and others have more draft picks and money than we do.

Face it folk. Cutler ain't coming here period. THe FO likes Delhomme whether you do or not. So all the back and forth posts ridiculing each other is wasted. Why not focus the hate and namecalling for a topic that is more likely to happen.

Carry on!!

[panthers55]

Before Nick Goings had his 6 100 yard games the last eight games in the season, Jake had twelve touchdowns to eleven interceptions. When Nick Goings came in Jake had seventeen touchdowns and four interceptions the second half of the season.

Nick Goings running the ball wasn't what caused the team to do well, he was a piece of the puzzle though. It was a team effort to recover from 13 starters going down to injury. It was the team rallying around Jake after they recovered from being shellshocked with the rash of injuries. It was guys like Goings and Moose steppiing up to deliver the best performances of their career.

The point is that Jake carried the team that year and had his best year as a pro. It could be just as easily said that Jake throwing the ball so well opened up the running game for Goings. It just goes to say that teams don't have to have running games to succeed.

[Mr. Scot]

You quote the guy he replaced, divisional rivals and another safety who was torched by Cutler.

Excellent selection of people there.

You quoted fantasy football websites.

You're going to blame cutler for the last three seasons?

He arrived and started into the season as a rookie, which 99% of time is par for the course. In the second season his offensive line and running game died, his wide receivers either retired (Rod Smith) or went nuts (Walker) and only one guy played well (Marshall). Then last year his defense was worse than it ever has been, the running game died through injuries, he had a lame duck head coach and his receivers again went crazy.

You're blaming a guy for not taking a rebuilding team to the playoffs. This is like blaming DeAngelo Williams for losing against Arizona, he was one of the few who did their best and was effective.

Denver has been losing in spite of Cutler's performance, not because of it.

And you're saying he has what it takes to lead the team to a Super Bowl based on a career that hasn't even seen him show he has what it takes to win a playoff game. Meanwhile, you're completely bailing on a guy who's actually been to a Super Bowl and played well. It's all conjecture that you can't really back up.

There were plenty of people who thought David Carr had what it took despite his Houston career. They just knew that none of it was his fault.

There have been quotes aplenty from current teammates about Jake Delhomme being their guy and someone they trust to lead them to victory even after this year's playoff disaster. Can you find an equal amount of quotes from Cutler's current teammates after this past year's late season collapse?

[Fireball77]

I don't blame Cutler for having a crummy defense or for being THE reason his team didn't make the playoffs, I blame him for his performances that didn't help overcome that. The whole point of a "Franchise QB" is having a guy who can "put the team on his back" when other aspects of the team suck, right? He has far from proven he can even make the offense great in those circumstances despite a nice corps of guys to throw to (OVERALL better than Carolina's) and the best OL in the free world last year in pass pro (Yes, Collins was sacked 3 fewer times but he also passed 200 fewer times). People say the Broncos were horrible as a rushing offense but they averaged over 116 yds/game in 2008 which I believe is is a better rush offense than Jake ever had behind him except this past year & 2003. Why bother getting Cutler? That's not an upgrade, especially for the $$ he and Bus baby are most likely gonna want.

[CharlotteBeer.com]

The whole point of a "Franchise QB" is having a guy who can "put the team on his back" when other aspects of the team suck, right?

Is Drew Brees a franchise quarterback?

How about Jake Delhomme?

[mantal]

I don't blame Cutler for having a crummy defense or for being THE reason his team didn't make the playoffs, I blame him for his performances that didn't help overcome that. The whole point of a "Franchise QB" is having a guy who can "put the team on his back" when other aspects of the team suck, right? He has far from proven he can even make the offense great in those circumstances despite a nice corps of guys to throw to (OVERALL better than Carolina's) and the best OL in the free world last year in pass pro (Yes, Collins was sacked 3 fewer times but he also passed 200 fewer times). People say the Broncos were horrible as a rushing offense but they averaged over 116 yds/game in 2008 which I believe is is a better rush offense than Jake ever had behind him except this past year & 2003. Why bother getting Cutler? That's not an upgrade, especially for the $$ he and Bus baby are most likely gonna want.

Is Drew Brees a franchise quarterback?

How about Jake Delhomme?

Given Fireball's post I'd say that she covers that question quite well...

[Fireball77]

Is Drew Brees a franchise quarterback?

How about Jake Delhomme?

Brees is a better passer than Jake. Jake is a more clutch player than Brees, but neither is a "franchise QB" by my definition (which is a guy who was drafted high, paid a bunch of money and whose team is built around him on offense and who is a consitently top performer most every year he is a starter).The only one of those is Peyton Manning (Brady's team has not been "built" around him on offense...as he has had only one year with two top level WRs). And Manning's cap hit is 21 million this upcoming year. No thanks. That's why I don't like the team model of building a team around ONE player who is singular at his position.