NFL.com Peppers/Patriots *possible* update

[Mr. Scot]

Throw in Wes Welker...

I'd take that.

I'd prefer a defensive player, but I've long been a Welker fan.

No realistic expectations of it happening though.

[ladypanther]

http://news.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view/2009_03_17_Report:_Patriots_in_talks_to_get_Panthers_DE_Julius_Peppers:_Peppers_on_the_table/srvc=home&position=also

[panthers55]

http://news.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view/2009_03_17_Report:_Patriots_in_talks_to_get_Panthers_DE_Julius_Peppers:_Peppers_on_the_table/srvc=home&position=also

I particularly like the part where the close friend of peppers says he brings a warrior mentality to the field and lets his playing do the talking. Sure doesn't sound like the same person who routinely takes plays off and disappears at times.

I surely hope we don't take a second rounder for him. My hope is that when teams hears what the price could be, we now get into a bidding war.

[dksmith17]

Is a 2nd rounder really that bad?

We know that

1) We can't pay him 16 mill next year

2) He doesn't want to play here, so even if he does play- is it worth the locker room issues you will have?

Pats know that

1) He is elite and is usually worth more than a second rounder but with the position we are stuck in, we are in no room to bargain.

So what will a 2nd rounder get us? I think 34th overall is enough to get us a Michael Johnson DE from GT. He has actually fallen quite a bit in several experts rankings to around 10th overall DL- but Fox seems to be interested in him. In fact, I think wecould get him with our other 2nd round pick and spend the first on a much needed DT like a Ron Brace, or Evander Hood.

Michael is deffenitely a gamble, but IMO he is very similar to Peppers. The knock is he takes plays off and isn't great against the run, but is a freakish athlete defending the pass- essentially the same as Peppers. I think this makes a lot of sense actually.

So, don't think about it as not getting enough "value" for Pep- just think about what we are getting as far as in the draft in return and what we need, and then it makes sense.

[unicar15]

Is a 2nd rounder really that bad?

We know that

1) We can't pay him 16 mill next year

2) He doesn't want to play here, so even if he does play- is it worth the locker room issues you will have?

Pats know that

1) He is elite and is usually worth more than a second rounder but with the position we are stuck in, we are in no room to bargain.

So what will a 2nd rounder get us? I think 34th overall is enough to get us a Michael Johnson DE from GT. He has actually fallen quite a bit in several experts rankings to around 10th overall DL- but Fox seems to be interested in him. In fact, I think wecould get him with our other 2nd round pick and spend the first on a much needed DT like a Ron Brace, or Evander Hood.

Michael is deffenitely a gamble, but IMO he is very similar to Peppers. The knock is he takes plays off and isn't great against the run, but is a freakish athlete defending the pass- essentially the same as Peppers. I think this makes a lot of sense actually.

So, don't think about it as not getting enough "value" for Pep- just think about what we are getting as far as in the draft in return and what we need, and then it makes sense.

A second round pick is not enough compensation for a lot of pro bowlers much less a 29 year old at the peak of his career. He just came off a year where he put up his largest sack total yet...a 2nd rounder would be a slap in the face.

[dksmith17]

A second round pick is not enough compensation for a lot of pro bowlers much less a 29 year old at the peak of his career. He just came off a year where he put up his largest sack total yet...a 2nd rounder would be a slap in the face.

I understand your reasoning. But this is not a normal situation in which we are looking to simply trade a probowler. There are so many reasons for this.

1) he wants out

2) he wants to play in a 3-4(the pats are)

3) he gets paid 16 mill next year (but wont even sign that LOL)

4) after this year is the (arguable) 1st uncapped year and he could be a free agent- so the Pats theroetically could have him for 1 year at 16 mill and then he goes to the highest bidder (probably Snyder). So IMO, the value isn't there for the Pats to offer more than a 2nd rounder.

[CBDellinger]

I understand your reasoning. But this is not a normal situation in which we are looking to trade a probowler. There are so many reasons for this.

1) he wants out

2) he wants to play in a 3-4(the pats are)

3) he gets paid 16 mill next year (but wont even sign that LOL)

4) after this year is the (arguable) 1st uncapped year and he could be a free agent- so the Pats theroetically could have him for 1 year at 16 mill and then he goes to the highest bidder (probably Snyder). So IMO, the value isn't there for the Pats to offer more than a 2nd rounder.

Lemme break this down...

1) So what? We own his rights... it's not his decision... we are going to get compensated. Otherwise why bother?

2) See #1

3)The tender will take affect eventually regardless if he signs it or not... if he tries to sit that wont work b/c we would retain his rights automatically for another year and be reimbursed that years pay.

4) Any team that trades for him is only going to do it if he agrees to sign a long term deal with them... no one is gonna trade for him at that cap number with a one year deal.

[bigdog_10_2002]

A second round pick is not enough compensation for a lot of pro bowlers much less a 29 year old at the peak of his career. He just came off a year where he put up his largest sack total yet...a 2nd rounder would be a slap in the face.

this 29 year old in the peak of his career took an entire season off two years ago. I'm not saying that I think the 34th pick is enough compensation but lets not build up Peppers to be some irreplaceable all world player.

[panthers55]

I understand your reasoning. But this is not a normal situation in which we are looking to trade a probowler. There are so many reasons for this.

1) he wants out

2) he wants to play in a 3-4(the pats are)

3) he gets paid 16 mill next year (but wont even sign that LOL)

4) after this year is the (arguable) 1st uncapped year and he could be a free agent- so the Pats theroetically could have him for 1 year at 16 mill and then he goes to the highest bidder (probably Snyder). So IMO, the value isn't there for the Pats to offer more than a 2nd rounder.

Your arguments assume that we want to get rid of him. That isn't at all what I am hearing. We paid him 14 million last year. The cap went up 10 million. We can pay him 16 million and still sign our draft picks if we restructure Smitty and extend Jake. In free agency we are looking for cheap FAs like we did last year on the o-line.

And I am sure that any trade would require Peppers to sign long term. The Pats don't want him for one year only. Plus they won't want to pay him 16 million bucks just like we don't. If the patriots don't give us alot more than a paltry 2nd rounder then we will keep him. You guys seem to forget that we don't have to do anything. He belongs to us and has already said he isn't going to sit out. So either the Pats pony up if they want him or we keep him here. It isn't that hard to figure out.

[dksmith17]

Lemme break this down...

1) So what? We own his rights... it's not his decision... we are going to get compensated. Otherwise why bother?

2) See #1

3)The tender will take affect eventually regardless if he signs it or not... if he tries to sit that wont work b/c we would retain his rights automatically for another year and be reimbursed that years pay.

4) Any team that trades for him is only going to do it if he agrees to sign a long term deal with them... no one is gonna trade for him at that cap number with a one year deal.

Yes as I said, its all arguable points that I made.

But if you look at as we are giving away 16 mill in cap and a guy thats wants out. And we are getting a much younger guy(Johnson) that plays the same position and offers many of the same talents, and hopefully a better attitude. It does make sense now, we are actually a pretty young team at our core(Beason, Gamble, Davis, Stewart, Williams), and this makes atleast some sense to do this.

[Jangler]

I know they better do something soon, because he will be a huge distraction all offseason, training camp and season. Best thing to do IMO is get what we can and move on.

[Skew]

Your arguments assume that we want to get rid of him. That isn't at all what I am hearing. We paid him 14 million last year. The cap went up 10 million. We can pay him 16 million and still sign our draft picks if we restructure Smitty and extend Jake. In free agency we are looking for cheap FAs like we did last year on the o-line.

And I am sure that any trade would require Peppers to sign long term. The Pats don't want him for one year only. Plus they won't want to pay him 16 million bucks just like we don't. If the patriots don't give us alot more than a paltry 2nd rounder then we will keep him. You guys seem to forget that we don't have to do anything. He belongs to us and has already said he isn't going to sit out. So either the Pats pony up if they want him or we keep him here. It isn't that hard to figure out.

Bingo!

[dksmith17]

I know they better do something soon, because he will be a huge distraction all offseason, training camp and season. Best thing to do IMO is get what we can and move on.

Agreed. My first reaction to the 2nd round for Pep was "UGH. NO not the Pats."

But if we get Michael Johnson and a stud DT in the 2nd round, I won't be mad. Its not like NE is in our conference either. Since when is it considered an awful deal to get rid of a headcase for a 34th pick?

PS: Don't forget we play in Foxboro next year.

[ashehudson]

Also keep in mind that the Pats have also cleared cap room assuming they are going to get Peppers. If they don't, then they will be in a possible bad position as well.

This is a low ball offer, just like Hurney alluded to getting two 1st rounders for him.

I say we end up with a 1st + 4th or two 2nds.