Newton's Prototype

[Mr. Scot]

Kind of my point Scot. If this is his starting off point then wowzers. Still has a lot to prove but neither me nor you saw that coming. That is why there is so much excitement today.

We are all cautiously optimistic right now. Not just you.

But in the history of this franchise how many times have we seen a QB carry us, let alone a rookie.

Even in Jake's heyday he rarely carried the team (although he pretty much did in the Super Bowl).

Yeah we lost but you could argue that without Cam last night we aren't even in the game at the end.

It's not really arguable that without Newton we wouldn't have been in the game at the end. That's fact.

If you want to see one reason why I'm cautious, go back to 2003 and compare Delhomme's week one performance with the game he played in week two (ironically enough, against the then Super Bowl champs, same as Newton's will be this week).

We won both of those games. If it turns out we lose both of the first two this season, it won't bother me that much. Like I said, all I'm looking for out of this season is reasons to be optimistic about the future. As of yesterday, I've got 'em.

Truth: I'm as big an Andrew Luck fan as you'll find. That said, if Newton finishes this season looking even half as good as he showed he could look yesterday but we still wind up with the #1 pick, you will find me arguing vehemently against using that first pick on Luck or any other quarterback. Yeah, it's a long season and a lot can change between now and then, but that's the way I'm looking at our future right now.

Still think I'm knocking him?

[teeray]

It's not really arguable that without Newton we wouldn't have been in the game at the end. That's fact.

If you want to see one reason why I'm cautious, go back to 2003 and compare Delhomme's week one performance with the game he played in week two (ironically enough, against the then Super Bowl champs, same as Newton's will be this week).

We won both of those games. If it turns out we lose both of the first two this season, it won't bother me that much. Like I said, all I'm looking for out of this season is reasons to be optimistic about the future. As of yesterday, I've got 'em.

Truth: I'm as big an Andrew Luck fan as you'll find. That said, if Newton finishes this season looking even half as good as he showed he could look yesterday but we still wind up with the #1 pick, you will find me arguing vehemently against using that first pick on Luck or any other quarterback. Yeah, it's a long season and a lot can change between now and then, but that's the way I'm looking at our future right now.

Still think I'm knocking him?

Andrew Luck looked like poo in Durham this past weekend. Well 3 quarters anyway. For some reason it made me happy. I don't know why.

Not sure that adds anything to the conversation :lol:

[panthers55]

Again, style of play, not level of ability.

That's the part people keep missing.

Other than Favre I don't think he plays like Jake or Elway for that matter. You could make a case for Roethlisburger, Dan Fouts, Jim Plunkett and a number of guys who were downfield passers, had good intangibles, and who were successful in a vertical passing game. None of them have the physical ability of Newton.

As for his style of play, that again is a work in progress. Lets see what his style is after he has played a year or two. To that end, comparisons at this point reggarding his style are premature at best.

That is the part you are missing.

[chef17]

I love how everyone argues with Mr. Scot when he says Cam is a gunslinger but Rayzor said the same thing and no one has anything to say

[blackcatgrowl]

It's not really arguable that without Newton we wouldn't have been in the game at the end. That's fact.

If you want to see one reason why I'm cautious, go back to 2003 and compare Delhomme's week one performance with the game he played in week two (ironically enough, against the then Super Bowl champs, same as Newton's will be this week).

We won both of those games. If it turns out we lose both of the first two this season, it won't bother me that much. Like I said, all I'm looking for out of this season is reasons to be optimistic about the future. As of yesterday, I've got 'em.

Truth: I'm as big an Andrew Luck fan as you'll find. That said, if Newton finishes this season looking even half as good as he showed he could look yesterday but we still wind up with the #1 pick, you will find me arguing vehemently against using that first pick on Luck or any other quarterback. Yeah, it's a long season and a lot can change between now and then, but that's the way I'm looking at our future right now.

Still think I'm knocking him?

It's too bad we don't have the 2003 Panther's defense. We would have mauled Kolb and won this game by a landslide victory.

Our problems at QB are solved. It sucks for you that you aren't so sure. I am. I was when we drafted him.

[Highlandfire]

Mr. Scott, I have to go with Elway. When he came out the guy had some serious wheels on him (not to Cam's level, but you get the point).

We are fortunate though he isn't looking like this...

http://www.nfl.com/player/jamarcusrussell/2507161/profile

[Mr. Scot]

I love how everyone argues with Mr. Scot when he says Cam is a gunslinger but Rayzor said the same thing and no one has anything to say

He's better looking than I am.

It's too bad we don't have the 2003 Panther's defense. We would have mauled Kolb and won this game by a landslide victory.

Our problems at QB are solved. It sucks for you that you aren't so sure. I am. I was when we drafted him.

My day hasn't sucked in the least :D

(but then, I'm enjoying the feeling of a positive start rather than playing Don Quixote)

[Mr. Scot]

Other than Favre I don't think he plays like Jake or Elway for that matter. You could make a case for Roethlisburger, Dan Fouts, Jim Plunkett and a number of guys who were downfield passers, had good intangibles, and who were successful in a vertical passing game. None of them have the physical ability of Newton.

As for his style of play, that again is a work in progress. Lets see what his style is after he has played a year or two. To that end, comparisons at this point reggarding his style are premature at best.

That is the part you are missing.

I don't know that his style will evolve that much. Don't really care if it does, honestly.

Stylewise, I could be pretty happy with what I saw yesterday.

[rayzor]

Saying Newton is inaccurate is a statement stands on it's own. The rest of the quote is just like smiling while you tell someone you don't like them.

You have no basis to call Newton inaccurate. None.

You didn't in February. You didn't in late April. You don't now.

And to take a page from Teeray... if you call Newton's performance yesterday "inaccurate", then you would have to call every QB that's ever played the game "inaccurate".

(again, if you are talking about his preseaon performance, I will seriously laugh at you. Like... really... point my finger... and laugh...)

he wasn't calling him inaccurate. he was commenting that he's essentially not a "surgical strike" kind of guy like brees...which he's not, but very few are. he's saying that he's accurate enough to get the job done, which he is. if that was all there is to him, you could look at him negatively, but because of how newton plays he doesn't have to have pinpoint accuracy. he just needs to trust his receivers and get it to them.

not having pinpoint accuracy doesn't make him a bad or even inaccurate passer.

you can be a good shot and not a sniper.

[Mr. Scot]

he wasn't calling him inaccurate. he was commenting that he's essentially not a "surgical strike" kind of guy like brees...which he's not, but very few are. he's saying that he's accurate enough to get the job done, which he is. if that was all there is to him, you could look at him negatively, but because of how newton plays he doesn't have to have pinpoint accuracy. he just needs to trust his receivers and get it to them.

not having pinpoint accuracy doesn't make him a bad or even inaccurate passer.

you can be a good shot and not a sniper.

Nice example :thumbsup:

He doesn't have to be able to hit a fly at 50 yards like Manning or Brees. He just has to be able to hit an open Steve Smith on a deep out. Might not look as cool, but it gets the job done.

Kinda reminds me of that line from Karate Kid II:

"You think you could break a log like that?"

"Don't know. Never been attacked by tree."

[panthers55]

I love how everyone argues with Mr. Scot when he says Cam is a gunslinger but Rayzor said the same thing and no one has anything to say

I don't agree that he is a gunslinger at this point. He really threw 2 ill-advised passes yesterday once which was picked off and counted, the other which did not. But to be a gunslinger you have to gamble a lot, throw into double and triple coverage and take chances with the ball often making ill-advised throws. I know it is early, but Newton hasn't taken very many chances. He has taken sacks when no one was open, ran with the ball when he had no other option, and threw it away other times.

The fact is that Newton has other weapons like running the ball which will mitigate him being a gunslinger. When the pocket closed, guys like Favre and Jake would throw it up hoping for the best. Newton brings the ball down and runs with it.

Things could change as he gets more experience and believes he can make throws he can't, but up to now he seems the opposite of a gunslinger. He will take a chance downfield but he rarely seems to throw into multiple coverages. Even when he does, it is likely more of a rookie mistake reading coverages then it is intentionally trying to force the ball.

[dksmith17]

but because of how newton plays he doesn't have to have pinpoint accuracy.

I thought the draft buzz on Cam is he had really good deep ball accuracy and was amazingly accurate with the deep ball on the run. His main accuracy issues historically were short horizontal passes. Yesterday those didn't seem to be a problem either.

[blackcatgrowl]

he wasn't calling him inaccurate. he was commenting that he's essentially not a "surgical strike" kind of guy like brees...which he's not, but very few are. he's saying that he's accurate enough to get the job done, which he is. if that was all there is to him, you could look at him negatively, but because of how newton plays he doesn't have to have pinpoint accuracy. he just needs to trust his receivers and get it to them.

not having pinpoint accuracy doesn't make him a bad or even inaccurate passer.

you can be a good shot and not a sniper.

I'm sorry... even if your interpretation is what he really meant (which given the volume of anti-Cam rhetoric from him pre-draft I doubt), then it's just backtracking from Mr. Scot on Newton, and a subtle shot at him because we lost as a team.

It's ok though. He'll silence all the doubters in time... even the one's who won't man up to being just that.

[Mr. Scot]

I'm sorry... even if your interpretation is what he really meant (which given the volume of anti-Cam rhetoric from him pre-draft), then it's just backtracking from Mr. Scot on Newton, and a subtle shot at him because we lost as a team.

It's ok though. He'll silence all the doubters in time... even the one's who won't man up to being just that.

Oy :rolleyes: