Newton's Prototype

[Mr. Scot]

No but I did see the 50 times you told me Cam wasn't going to be ready and DA or Clausen should start week 1.

I am not sure I saw the same level or recklessness that you saw like Jake, Elway, or Favre last night. Especially for a rookie making his debut.

Question, if after that game and no picks in the preseason how do you think you would have described Manning after his 28 pick rookie season?? He seemed a lot more wild and big play or bust when he was a rookie. Wouldn't you agree??

I would have described Manning as a rookie, same as Newton.

And no, I didn't want Newton starting week one. But then, given the choice, I wouldn't have preferred not to start Manning, Aikman or Andrew Luck week one either, and those guys had/have less of a learning curve than Newton does.

Lots of quarterbacks get ruined by being thrown into the fire too early. I do not want to see that happen to Newton. I know it's all the rage in the league right now, but I still prefer the approach that gives you an Aaron Rodgers over the approach that gives you a Mark Sanchez.

And being a gunslinger means being gutsy, not reckless, although some do cross the line (Grossman, for example).

[Mr. Scot]

Saying Newton is inaccurate is a statement stands on it's own. The rest of the quote is just like smiling while you tell someone you don't like them.

You have no basis to call Newton inaccurate. None.

You didn't in February. You didn't in late April. You don't now.

And to take a page from Teeray... if you call Newton's performance yesteday "inaccurate", then you would have to call every QB that's ever played the game "inaccurate".

(again, if you are talking about his preseaon performance, I will seriously laugh at you. Like... really... point my finger... and laugh...)

"Not pinpoint accurate" doesn't equal "inaccurate". This is another thing you're reading into it that just isn't there.

Again, you're looking for something to fight about. Fine, if that's how you want to be, but it gets kinda boring to deal with after a while.

People who know me know that I was a big fan of another quarterback who wasn't exactly "pinpoint accurate" either.

If I was happy with him as the Panthers quarterback, and I see Newton as the same style of player (but with more physical ability and upside) then why on earth would I not be happy with Newton? (especially after yesterday)

[DJ Insicion]

Week 1 completion percentage of 65% ill take that all day. He makes plays when he needs to and some the best accurate QB's can't do that.

[teeray]

I would have described Manning as a rookie, same as Newton.

And no, I didn't want Newton starting week one. But then, given the choice, I wouldn't have preferred not to start Manning, Aikman or Andrew Luck week one either, and those guys had/have less of a learning curve than Newton does.

Lots of quarterbacks get ruined by being thrown into the fire too early. I do not want to see that happen to Newton. I know it's all the rage in the league right now, but I still prefer the approach that gives you an Aaron Rodgers over the approach that gives you a Mark Sanchez.

And being a gunslinger means being gutsy, not reckless, although some do cross the line (Grossman, for example).

Well that brings us back to the unwinnable argument (for both sides) of whether sitting a QB actually helps them. There is no real proof that sitting Aaron Rodgers did anything but delay the inevitable. Even if the QB himself said it helped it still is unprovable because he never played.

[blackcatgrowl]

"Not pinpoint accurate" doesn't equal "inaccurate".

:lol:

Not fighitng with you... when it comes to Newton, you show bias, and I can't take what you say seriously.

Of all the people on our team, Cam Newton showed he needs "less work" than anyone and is a capable starter.

[Mr. Scot]

Well that brings us back to the unwinnable argument (for both sides) of whether sitting a QB actually helps them. There is no real proof that sitting Aaron Rodgers did anything but delay the inevitable. Even if the QB himself said it helped it still is unprovable because he never played.

There's examples on both sides of that argument.

My default position is that it's better for rookies to sit because the transition to the pros is tough, more so for a guy like Newton who didn't come from a pro-style system.

But ultimately, it's an individual choice made by the guys that have the most knowledge of the situation (i.e. the coaches). Sadly, even with all the info they have, sometimes they get it wrong.

In this particular case, my most sincere hope is that I was wrong, and Rivera was right. One game doesn't answer that question on either side. We'll see what happens in the long run.

(sadly, message boards aren't conducive to debate that can't be solved in the short term)

[rayzor]

So just because he threw a lot and can throw fast, he's a gun slinger? I don't see Newton as that. I didn't see Newton fitting the ball into tight windows where most QBs shouldn't have thrown the ball. I saw Newton put the ball exactly where it should have been placed. Just because he can throw fast doesn't make him a gun slinger. Based on this game, I saw nothing of that according to your definition of one.

it's not the throwing the ball fast and often that makes him a gunslinger. its the go for broke attitude and the risk taking. it's the boldness and trusting that he can get it close enough to his receivers an trusting them enough that they will get the ball.

i've been on the cam newton bandwagon longer than most around here and was one of the most vocal about drafting him and starting him. essentially, i am a fan of what he can do here and i see no problem with him being considered a gunslinger. it honestly fits what he does and that isn't a bad thing, in fact i like it. it's about the most exciting type of QB, imo.

as passer, comparisons him with the likes of bret favre and john elway are appropriate, esp. based on what we saw yesterday. i that what we should expect going forward? i doubt it, but it's a better comparison than most others and, in my opinion, it's pretty stinking good company to named be in.

i will say that what we saw was only a little tip of the iceburg. remember, they have only installed a small portion of it. they ran a very simplified gameplan and they have yet to add in the scripted run plays we know are coming as well as the other creative elements that we saw in TC.

cam newton very well could be setting a new standard. already he's set a new bar for debut performances at QB. we've got to believe that there is much more coming.

[Mr. Scot]

:lol:

Not fighitng with you... when it comes to Newton, you show bias, and I can't take what you say seriously.

Of all the people on our team, Cam Newton showed he needs "less work" than anyone and is a capable starter.

No bias here. Just the knowledge that it's a tad silly to think any player is anywhere close to being a finished product after their first ever NFL start.

He has things to work on, and I doubt he'd have any issue acknowledging that.

Happily, that's why they practice.

[Mr. Scot]

it's not the throwing the ball fast and often that makes him a gunslinger. its the go for broke attitude and the risk taking. it's the boldness and trusting that he can get it close enough to his receivers an trusting them enough that they will get the ball.

i've been on the cam newton bandwagon longer than most around here and was one of the most vocal about drafting him and starting him. essentially, i am a fan of what he can do here and i see no problem with him being considered a gunslinger. it honestly fits what he does and that isn't a bad thing, in fact i like it. it's about the most exciting type of QB, imo.

as passer, comparisons him with the likes of bret favre and john elway are appropriate, esp. based on what we saw yesterday. i that what we should expect going forward? i doubt it, but it's a better comparison than most others and, in my opinion, it's pretty stinking good company to named be in.

i will say that what we saw was only a little tip of the iceburg. remember, they have only installed a small portion of it. they ran a very simplified gameplan and they have yet to add in the scripted run plays we know are coming as well as the other creative elements that we saw in TC.

cam newton very well could be setting a new standard. already he's set a new bar for debut performances at QB. we've got to believe that there is much more coming.

Bingo :thumbsup:

[csx]

Derek Anderson threw for 5 tds and 328 yards in his first start. How many people consider him a capable starter?

What's the point in going all in judging a player after one game? Be happy he played as well, look forward to watching him more, and get your noses out of the dudes arse.

[teeray]

No bias here. Just the knowledge that it's a tad silly to think any player is anywhere close to being a finished product after their first ever NFL start.

He has things to work on, and I doubt he'd have any issue acknowledging that.

Happily, that's why they practice.

Kind of my point Scot. If this is his starting off point then wowzers. Still has a lot to prove but neither me nor you saw that coming. That is why there is so much excitement today.

We are all cautiously optimistic right now. Not just you.

But in the history of this franchise how many times have we seen a QB carry us, let alone a rookie.

Even in Jake's heyday he rarely carried the team (although he pretty much did in the Super Bowl).

Yeah we lost but you could argue that without Cam last night we aren't even in the game at the end.

[Mr. Scot]

Derek Anderson threw for 5 tds and 328 yards in his first start. How many people consider him a capable starter?

What's the point in going all in judging a player after one game? Be happy he played as well, look forward to watching him more, and get your noses out of the dudes arse.

That's a little saltier than I would have put it, but a valid point.

[teeray]

Derek Anderson threw for 5 tds and 328 yards in his first start. How many people consider him a capable starter?

What's the point in going all in judging a player after one game? Be happy he played as well, look forward to watching him more, and get your noses out of the dudes arse.

But part of the excitement is here is a guy who has a lot still to learn, was supposed to be a "project" of sorts (according to several analysts, not just some Huddlers) and did this in his debut with no OTA's and no mini camp.

[Shotgun]

Morpheus duh