Newton's Prototype

[Guild]

Just because Newton had a good game doesn't mean I don't expect better in the future. I want him to work until he surpasses 400 yards 100% completion and 6 TD passing per game.

He won't ever surpass that? That's the point.

[Lord_Vader]

It's been discussed many a time on this board. To whom does Cam Newton most closely compare?

The name that seems to get thrown out the most often is Ben Roethlisberger (that based mainly on his size). Daunte Culpepper is another in that same vein. Michael Vick is evoked for athleticism (don't see it myself) as is Vince Young. Jamarcus Russell comes up on the negative side (not seeing that one either). As far as who people want him to develop into, the names most commonly mentioned are guys like Donovan McNabb and Steve McNair. Others go for the whole "let him just be himself" thing, as if comparing him to someone else was a disservice (it isn't).

I'm gonna suggest, however, that based on what I've seen so far, Newton is in a different mold than the names most commonly discussed.

The names I'd prefer to evoke?

Brett Favre...

John Elway...

...and our old buddy Jake Delhomme.

Newton's not a pinpoint accurate passer like a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady. And while he's young and coachable, I think it'd be a mistake to try to make him into one. Do you want him to be a pass-first, run-second guy? Absolutely, and you'll most certainly coach him up when it comes to technique, mechanics, footwork and decision making. But you still have to tailor your coaching to his skill set, and that's way closer to a guy like Favre than it is a guy like Brady.

Favre, Elway and Delhomme were all "gunslinger" types. Gutsy quarterbacks who trusted in their arms and in their receivers. No, they might not throw the prettiest passes in the world, and yes, sometimes their receivers had to work a little harder than those the more precise QBs had. Worth remembering also that these guys were all known for fourth quarter comebacks, but those comebacks sometimes were necessitated by early mistakes.

Ball placement accuracy tends to be spotty in these types, as is consistency. A typical game might feature throws that looked near perfect and even borderline miraculous mixed in with throws that looked like something the cat dragged in. Fans watching teams led by this type of QB have tended to ride a rollercoaster between "holy cow" and "what the #@%&" (something Panther fans should know quite well).

Still, more often than not, they get the job done :thumbsup:

To be clear, Newton's arm and athleticism are way closer to Favre/Elway than Delhomme. That's good, because if you're going to make tough throws, it helps if the velocity on them makes them difficult to pick off. Again, the passes might not be pretty, and they won't be as likely to hit a receiver in perfect stride, but "pretty" and "catchable" aren't the same thing, and I'll happily take a pass that's catchable even if it's ugly.

(I'll happily take wins that way too, thank you) :D

So have we finally got our franchise quarterback? If week one is any indication, yes. But people looking for a Brady / Manning / Brees type of franchise guy are barking up the wrong tree. Newton's not that, and trying to turn him into that is as likely to mess him up as it is to accomplish anything positive.

The better move: Take him for what he is, and make him the best he can be in that mold. Yes, it may mean going back to the "Cardiac Cats" style and looking up prices on home defibrillators again, but I can live with that. Just get 'er done.

Truth be told, gut wrenching as it might be sometimes, it makes for some pretty fun memories :lol:

In Chicago they are calling CAM the NEW PROTOTYPE for the future. Damn what a difference 1 game makes.:patriot:

[blackcatgrowl]

There's another guy saying something similar. Here's a quote:

Now that guy must be a real hater :sosp:

You guys are still looking for monsters under the bed. And like I said before, I'm sure you'll find them, whether they're really there or not.

Actually, I think its called celebrating our #1 pick's personal achievement in light of terrible play from our team. He broke a record game one... that's a tremendous way to start.

I can't think of a single rookie in NFL history who didn't still have "work to do" after one game. Manning, Aikman, whomever. If you guys think seeing someone as imperfect after their first ever NFL start is harsh criticism, you're watching a different league than I am.

Ok, if it's so obvious... why are you stating it?

No, I didn't want to go quarterback in the draft, but I'm happy and encouraged after yesterday. Not sure why you guys can't be instead of looking for something someone might have said that could maybe kinda sorta if you look at it in a certain light be taken as saying that Cam sucks. If you wanna stay defensive, that's your right, but it's not as much fun :nonod:

But bringing up the fact we lost, which had much, much, less to do about Cam, and more to do with our Defense, and lack of O-line blocking, just shows a kind of subjectivity... not objectivity.

The truth: Cautious optimism is still optimism.

For some reason, I'm having a hard time seeing the optimism here.

[teeray]

There's another guy saying something similar. Here's a quote:

Now that guy must be a real hater :sosp:

Cam was speaking in the context of the entire team in that instance.

And remember this was a guy that you thought should sit behind DA Week 1 and wasn't ready. Just wait until he is ready.

Everybody can improve, including Manning and Brady. And they try to do that week to week every week.

But looking for faults in last night's performance is like winning a $100 million dollars in the lottery and then and being upset it wasn't $200 million.

There will be faults to be had over the course of this season.

But attempting to find faults in a record setting/tying performance the first time a rookie steps foot on an NFL field in a real game doesn't scream intelligent analysis, it screams cynicism.

[Mr ocho nueve]

I still think he is a taller McNabb.

[Razzy]

I saw a bit of Favre/Delhomme/McNair

[Mr. Scot]

Actually, I think its called celebrating our #1 pick's personal achievement in light of terrible play from our team. He broke a record game one... that's a tremendous way to start.

Ok, if it's so obvious... why are you stating it?

But bringing up the fact we lost, which had much, much, less to do about Cam, and more to do with our Defense, and lack of O-line blocking, just shows a kind of subjectivity... not objectivity.

For some reason, I'm having a hard time seeing the optimism here.

That's because you're seeing what you want to see.

I took a look at the defense (bad up front, but with some positives to build on) and the offense (not great, but not as bad as people are saying) as well as a more performance based look at Newton in the game thoughts thread.

This thread, on the other hand, was to talk about the style of quarterback that I see Newton as being, not to critique his performance.

And if this doesn't sound optimistic to you...

Still, more often than not, they get the job done :thumbsup:

To be clear, Newton's arm and athleticism are way closer to Favre/Elway than Delhomme. That's good, because if you're going to make tough throws, it helps if the velocity on them makes them difficult to pick off. Again, the passes might not be pretty, and they won't be as likely to hit a receiver in perfect stride, but "pretty" and "catchable" aren't the same thing, and I'll happily take a pass that's catchable even if it's ugly.

(I'll happily take wins that way too, thank you) :D

So have we finally got our franchise quarterback? If week one is any indication, yes. But people looking for a Brady / Manning / Brees type of franchise guy are barking up the wrong tree. Newton's not that, and trying to turn him into that is as likely to mess him up as it is to accomplish anything positive.

The better move: Take him for what he is, and make him the best he can be in that mold. Yes, it may mean going back to the "Cardiac Cats" style and looking up prices on home defibrillators again, but I can live with that. Just get 'er done.

Truth be told, gut wrenching as it might be sometimes, it makes for some pretty fun memories :lol:

Well... :sosp:

[Mr. Scot]

Cam was speaking in the context of the entire team in that instance.

And remember this was a guy that you thought should sit behind DA Week 1 and wasn't ready. Just wait until he is ready.

Everybody can improve, including Manning and Brady. And they try to do that week to week every week.

But looking for faults in last night's performance is like winning a $100 million dollars in the lottery and then and being upset it wasn't $200 million.

There will be faults to be had over the course of this season.

But attempting to find faults in a record setting/tying performance the first time a rookie steps foot on an NFL field in a real game doesn't scream intelligent analysis, it screams cynicism.

See above.

Out of curiosity, did you guys miss the fifty or so times I've said that wins and losses this season aren't as important to me as seeing improvement and potential?

[DJ Insicion]

Cam Newton reminds me of a winner. Between all the back and forth of what everybody thinks who he is (type of style of player) or gunna be the kid WINS! I admit I didn't like us picking him in the draft but after seeing how he has handled himself in this whole situation he wants the spotlight and you can't teach that ish. Elway, Farve, Ben Rapelisberger, or any other QB people compare him to didn't do what he did yesterday. Cam Newton is Cam Newton and that's it. Just can't wait to see the progression of this kid because it's gunna be exciting, the good and bad.

[Mr. Scot]

Cam Newton reminds me of a winner. Between all the back and forth of what everybody thinks who he is (type of style of player) or gunna be the kid WINS! I admit I didn't like us picking him in the draft but after seeing how he has handled himself in this whole situation he wants the spotlight and you can't teach that ish. Elway, Farve, Ben Rapelisberger, or any other QB people compare him to didn't do what he did yesterday. Cam Newton is Cam Newton and that's it. Just can't wait to see the progression of this kid because it's gunna be exciting, the good and bad.

Winning is absolutely the bottom line. The NFL doesn't give style points.

Take this season as an initiation. Next year, the real fun starts.

(that goes for Rivera too)

[teeray]

See above.

Out of curiosity, did you guys miss the fifty or so times I've said that wins and losses this season aren't as important to me as seeing improvement and potential?

No but I did see the 50 times you told me Cam wasn't going to be ready and DA or Clausen should start week 1.

I am not sure I saw the same level or recklessness that you saw like Jake, Elway, or Favre last night. Especially for a rookie making his debut.

Question, if after that game and no picks in the preseason how do you think you would have described Manning after his 28 pick rookie season?? He seemed a lot more wild and big play or bust when he was a rookie. Wouldn't you agree??

[blackcatgrowl]

That's because you're seeing what you want to see.

I took a look at the defense (bad up front, but with some positives to build on) and the offense (not great, but not as bad as people are saying) as well as a more performance based look at Newton in the game thoughts thread.

This thread, on the other hand, was to talk about the style of quarterback that I see Newton as being, not to critique his performance.

And if this doesn't sound optimistic to you...

Well... :sosp:

All of what you are saying above is irrelevant when you say:

Newton's not a pinpoint accurate passer

The assessment, and your following arguments, takes away the credit for yesteday's performance from Cam, and gives it to his Wide Receivers and Tight Ends.

I'll demonstrate how it reads:

"Yeah, Cam looked good. But his receivers were making the catches. He needs to improve."

Lame as hell.

[Mr. Scot]

All of what you are saying above is irrelevant when you say:

The assessment, and your following arguments, takes away the credit for yesteday's performance from Cam, and gives it to his Wide Receivers and Tight Ends.

I'll demonstrate how it reads:

"Yeah, Cam looked good. But his receivers were making the catches. He needs to improve."

Lame as hell.

That's not what it says. That's how you're choosing to read it.

Try the full quote...

Newton's not a consistent pinpoint accurate passer, but he doesn't have to be to be a winner. Passes don't have to be pretty or perfect for a guy to be an effective quarterback. They just have to be catchable.

As long as he throws more catchable passes than uncatchable ones, I don't care if they're pretty or perfect. The win-loss record matters. Passing records don't.

[blackcatgrowl]

That's not what it says. That's how you're choosing to read it.

Try the full quote...

Saying Newton is inaccurate is a statement stands on it's own. The rest of the quote is just like smiling while you tell someone you don't like them.

You have no basis to call Newton inaccurate. None.

You didn't in February. You didn't in late April. You don't now.

And to take a page from Teeray... if you call Newton's performance yesterday "inaccurate", then you would have to call every QB that's ever played the game "inaccurate".

(again, if you are talking about his preseaon performance, I will seriously laugh at you. Like... really... point my finger... and laugh...)