Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

Newton's Prototype


Mr. Scot

Recommended Posts

Wow... one game under his belt, and you're still making this assertion...

And the funny thing is, even in that one game, he technically has a better career regular season career completion % than Tom Brady.

If you're making that judgement on his preseason play, I seriously :lol:.

Of course, I'm sure over the next few weeks we will see his numbers become averaged out as we face some of the toughest teams in the NFL.

But really... comparisons at this point are premature as hell. What I haven't seen from Cam in any of his games as a Panther yet (including preseason), is his explosiveness from the pocket. It looks like they have trained him to stay in the pocket (which is a good thing).

You just wait until they call a designed run play and he turns on the jets. Cam Newton will not be comparable to anyone... because we will see there is no one like him in the league, and honestly don't believe this league has seen anything like him before.

You're missing the point.

He had some passes yesterday that looked darn near perfect. He had others that required receivers to jump, slide or adjust. Still others that were just plain off target, though happily those were minimized.

Newton's not a consistent pinpoint accurate passer, but he doesn't have to be to be a winner. Passes don't have to be pretty or perfect for a guy to be an effective quarterback. They just have to be catchable.

As long as he throws more catchable passes than uncatchable ones, I don't care if they're pretty or perfect. The win-loss record matters. Passing records don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't think that those comparisons are that close. Elway was largely inaccurate through most of his career. His rookie year he completed 47.5% of his passes for a 54 rating and had 7 TDs and 14 INTs and 1666 yards. Newton is a quarter of the way there after 1 game. He was very accurate last night. Although I will admit that Elway had 2 very good games to start out his rookie year.

As for Favre, he has the saame arm strength from an arm strength and a gunslinger point of view but he is not as athletic as Newton by a long shot. On the other hand if he does half of what Favre did in his career I will be fine with it.

And finally Jake had the intangibles and leadership skills that Newton has but didn't have the physical skills. Jake doesn't have the deep ball that Newton does nor doees he have the accuracy or arm strength on out routes.

No at this point Newton has similarities to a lot of Qbs but few if any QBs have the total package. Lets see what he does with it as it is only at the beginning.

Again, style of play, not level of ability.

That's the part people keep missing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

what chances did Cam take with his throws Sunday besides the interception? And by chances I mean where the defender also has just as equal opportunity as the receiver to get the ball. His throws were on the money where the receivers could get it instead of the defender. Yes he did have bullet passes. But again, they were on the money. Not through a small window like Favre always forced his passes into. That's why I don't see this "gun slinger" label that Scott is getting at.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

what chances did Cam take with his throws Sunday besides the interception? And by chances I mean where the defender also has just as equal opportunity as the receiver to get the ball. His throws were on the money where the receivers could get it instead of the defender. Yes he did have bullet passes. But again, they were on the money. Not through a small window like Favre always forced his passes into. That's why I don't see this "gun slinger" label that Scott is getting at.

Oh, he definitely took some chances, though my discussion has more to do with the fact that he isn't a Manningesque pinpoint passer than it does with him being risky.

Make no mistake though. Newton believes he can thread that needle, and well he should. The big difference between him and Delhomme is that his passes have the velocity to get here faster, which makes them tougher to intercept.

In all likelihood, He's going to take his fair share of chances, but with an arm like that, why wouldn't you?

Realistically, Some of those chances will pay off (hopefully a lot) and some won't, but you can't pull back the reins. Henning tried to do that with Delhomme in early 2005 and wound up blunting his effectiveness more than helping it.

My guess: The current staff won't make that mistake with Newton.

(do hope they teach him to slide though)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're missing the point.

He had some passes yesterday that looked darn near perfect. He had others that required receivers to jump, slide or adjust. Still others that were just plain off target, though happily those were minimized.

If you go back and look at games with Manning, Brady, Rogers, Rivers, Favre, Elway, Aikman... any great QB... in almost every game there are always a good number of passes that get completed by the receiver rather than being pinpoint in their hands.

Some of the most amazing plays that have come from Indy have been those toe-tappers in the end zone. Those jump balls pulled in from the sideline, and the ****** and grabs from balls put out in front of Dallas Clark.

The point is, you can tear down any QB's mechanics and make them look like they are not playing their position well. It doesn't matter as long as he is sustaining drives, and making plays, and is a useless exercise in that light.

Newton's not a consistent pinpoint accurate passer, but he doesn't have to be to be a winner. Passes don't have to be pretty or perfect for a guy to be an effective quarterback. They just have to be catchable.

:nonod:

If you are throwing catchable balls, then you are, by definition, being an accurate passer.

If you don't like his form or footwork, then you're simply over-critiquing the mechanics of the position, in-spite of the results.

As long as he throws more catchable passes than uncatchable ones, I don't care if they're pretty or perfect. The win-loss record matters. Passing records don't.

:lol:

If our defense, special teams and O-line played to the same level as Cam Newton yesterday, we would have dominated Arizona and won that game 33-10.

Cam Newton was 85% of the effort from the Panthers. Taking a jab at him because of the loss is really poor form here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, he definitely took some chances, though my discussion has more to do with the fact that he isn't a Manningesque pinpoint passer than it does with him being risky.

Make no mistake though. Newton believes he can thread that needle, and well he should. The big difference between him and Delhomme is that his passes have the velocity to get here faster, which makes them tougher to intercept.

In all likelihood, He's going to take his fair share of chances, but with an arm like that, why wouldn't you?

Realistically, Some of those chances will pay off (hopefully a lot) and some won't, but you can't pull back the reins. Henning tried to do that with Delhomme in early 2005 and wound up blunting his effectiveness more than helping it.

My guess: The current staff won't make that mistake with Newton.

(do hope they teach him to slide though)

So whats the definition of a gun slinger according to you? I thought you defined what it was in the OP but now you're saying because his passes get to the receiver quicker that's what makes him one. I don't believe that's right. A gun slinger to me is somone who takes a lot of chances with the ball where it has an equal opportunity to be intercepted as well as caught. Just about all of Cam's passes were on target and placed where the receiver was the only one that could catch it. Yesterday, he looked more like Warren Moon and Donovan McNabb in thier prime as far as mobility and passing with flashes of Big Ben due to him being so hard to take down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you go back and look at games with Manning, Brady, Rogers, Rivers, Favre, Elway, Aikman... any great QB... in almost every game there are always a good number of passes that get completed by the receiver rather than being pinpoint in their hands.

Some of the most amazing plays that have come from Indy have been those toe-tappers in the end zone. Those jump balls pulled in from the sideline, and the ****** and grabs from balls put out in front of Dallas Clark.

The point is, you can tear down any QB's mechanics and make them look like they are not playing their position well. It doesn't matter as long as he is sustaining drives, and making plays, and is a useless exercise in that light.

:nonod:

If you are throwing catchable balls, then you are, by definition, being an accurate passer.

If you don't like his form or footwork, then you're simply over-critiquing the mechanics of the position, in-spite of the results.

:lol:

If our defense, special teams and O-line played to the same level as Cam Newton yesterday, we would have dominated Arizona and won that game 33-10.

Cam Newton was 85% of the effort from the Panthers. Taking a jab at the loss is really poor form here.

Thinking that I'm taking a jab at the loss, or being critical of Newton, is where you're missing the point.

There's a difference between analysis and criticism. If you wanna look for something negative about Newton in this, you'll likely find it (whether it's actually there or not).

I'm pretty happy with yesterday. Newton exceeded expectations big time, but that doesn't mean he's achieved perfection after one game. There's still work to do, and acknowledging that isn't criticism. It's reality.

Now, if you want to see someone really being tough on Newton, read what he has to say about himself (link)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So whats the definition of a gun slinger according to you? I thought you defined what it was in the OP but now you're saying because his passes get to the receiver quicker that's what makes him one. I don't believe that's right. A gun slinger to me is somone who takes a lot of chances with the ball where it has an equal opportunity to be intercepted as well as caught. Just about all of Cam's passes were on target and placed where the receiver was the only one that could catch it. Yesterday, he looked more like Warren Moon and Donovan McNabb in thier prime as far as mobility and passing with flashes of Big Ben due to him being so hard to take down.

Ask yourself this question: Would Jimmy Clausen have thrown some of the passes that Newton did yesterday?

For that matter, would Clausen have run the way Newton did, head forward, pushing for whatever he can get? Or would Clausen have slid when a guy got within five yards of him?

Gunslingers play with a balls-to-the-wall, all go, no quit, screw "living to fight another day" attitude. That's Newton. It was Delhomme too, but Newton has way more physical ability to bring to bear.

Will Newton ever be a precision passer? Probably not, but think of it this way:

Between Drew Bledsoe and Brett Favre, which one was more technically sound as a passer?

Of those two, which one would you rather have quarterbacking your team?

I'd be willing to bet the answers to those two questions don't match.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thinking that I'm taking a jab at the loss, or being critical of Newton, is where you're missing the point.

Then why did you bring up "win - loss" after the fact the team lost despite his individual record breaking performance?

I mean, I guess it doesn't matter that he broke an NFL record, kinda like it didn't matter that he broke college records, won the heisman, and the BCS didn't matter prior to us drafting him.

There's a difference between analysis and criticism. If you wanna look for something negative about Newton in this, you'll likely find it (whether it's actually there or not).

Yeah, but when an analysis is highlighting critical points, it becomes criticism. You're very... very careful with your wording Mr. Scot... but we know you didn't care for Newton.

I'm pretty happy with yesterday. Newton exceeded expectations big time, but that doesn't mean he's achieved perfection after one game. There's still work to do, and acknowledging that isn't criticism. It's reality.

Ok, then I'll ask you this. Why bring it up? Why try and tear down his amazing performance with your "objective analysis" and say "he has work to do"?

You were "happy" with yesterday, but will you acknowledge that Netwon is ready to start? Will you acknowledge he is a QB phenom to be able to come in, with little to no OTAs, a massively abbreviated off-season, a rookie HC, new playbook, and break the NFL debut passing record?

Now, if you want to see someone really being tough on Newton, read what he has to say about himself (link)

Newton's self-critique is a beautiful. It shows he is his biggest critic. Would he like to post a 100% completion record with 6 TDs, no INT, and won the game for us? Yeah, that's what he's striving for. Just means he's a monster competator.

Your critique is unwarranted, especially given the furvor you made prior to-and-after the draft, that he couldn't come in and be a starter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the standard that you are holding Cam to Scot there has never been a good QB in the history of the game. If every pass and read was perfect Cam would have a 100% completion percentage.

He missed some throws tonight. Every QB in the NFL misses throws. And every QB misses the numbers during games especially those that are 20 yards or more down field.

You are not incorrect but your standard for perfection is unreasonable IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But in regards of the topic of the OP the guy who he reminded me of (and I am shocked I am even saying this bc I didn't expect to) is this guy:

Dan-Marino-pic.jpg

He stood tall in the pocket and every throw was downfield. He took some sacks because he held the ball too long but had enormous arm strength and made 20 yard passes look like quick slants.

I really didn't expect Marino to pop into my head (I was thinking McNair or Culpepper before the game) last night but to my surprise it did.

I hope Cam has more postseason success than Marino and it was just one game, but in that one game Marino was the guy that popped in my head.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the standard that you are holding Cam to Scot there has never been a good QB in the history of the game. If every pass and read was perfect Cam would have a 100% completion percentage.

He missed some throws tonight. Every QB in the NFL misses throws. And every QB misses the numbers during games especially those that are 20 yards or more down field.

You are not incorrect but your standard for perfection is unreasonable IMO.

Yep.

Thank you Teeray for perfectly summarizing how I see this thread and Scot's "objective critique".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then why did you bring up "win - loss" after the fact the team lost despite his individual record breaking performance?

I mean, I guess it doesn't matter that he broke an NFL record, kinda like it didn't matter that he broke college records, won the heisman, and the BCS didn't matter prior to us drafting him.

Yeah, but when an analysis is highlighting critical points, it becomes criticism. You're very... very careful with your wording Mr. Scot... but we know you didn't care for Newton.

Ok, then I'll ask you this. Why bring it up? Why try and tear down his amazing performance with your "objective analysis" and say "he has work to do"?

You were "happy" with yesteday, but will you acknowledge that Netwon is ready to start? Will you acknowledge he is a QB phenom to be able to come in, with little to no OTAs, a massively abbreviated off-season, a rookie HC, new playbook, and break the NFL debut passing record?

Newton's self-critique is a beautiful. It shows he is his biggest critic. Would he like to post a 100% completion record with 6 TDs, no INT, and won the game for us? Yeah, that's what he's striving for. Just means he's a monster competator.

Your critique is unwarranted, especially given the furvor you made prior to-and-after the draft, that he couldn't come in and be a starter.

By the standard that you are holding Cam to Scot there has never been a good QB in the history of the game. If every pass and read was perfect Cam would have a 100% completion percentage.

He missed some throws tonight. Every QB in the NFL misses throws. And every QB misses the numbers during games especially those that are 20 yards or more down field.

You are not incorrect but your standard for perfection is unreasonable IMO.

There's another guy saying something similar. Here's a quote:

Like Coach says, when you're just good enough, you're just good enough to get beat. We've just got to go back and get better.

Now that guy must be a real hater :sosp:

You guys are still looking for monsters under the bed. And like I said before, I'm sure you'll find them, whether they're really there or not.

I can't think of a single rookie in NFL history who didn't still have "work to do" after one game. Manning, Aikman, whomever. If you guys think seeing someone as imperfect after their first ever NFL start is harsh criticism, you're watching a different league than I am.

No, I didn't want to go quarterback in the draft, but I'm happy and encouraged after yesterday. Not sure why you guys can't be instead of looking for something someone might have said that could maybe kinda sorta if you look at it in a certain light be taken as saying that Cam sucks. If you wanna stay defensive, that's your right, but it's not as much fun :nonod:

The truth: Cautious optimism is still optimism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Start with Bryce, this is like his rookie year. The 1st 2 games proved her was wired wrong and it looks like (we hope) he needed a time out to reset and be the player that was drafted. He's still about a year or more away from being a top 15 QB, if the Panther give him another playmaker or 2 (a top WR and a decent TE) and maintain that line. Canales deserves credit as playing that card correctly to motivate (or refocus) his QB for one last shot to decide his and the Panthers immediate future. As a Panther fans we should hope he keeps improving as we invested so much to get him. CJ Stroud will never have a season like he had, even if he stays a top 10 QB. He's got great character so I'm rooting for Bryce to continue on his positive journey. Canales is playing the week to week thing with bryce perfectly. Nothings guaranteed, earn it weekly which builds consistency and consistency is greatness.  Keep the O-line. They've got to extend Brady C, along with Mayes that have a real good 7. Great job Morgan starting with the big guys upfront.  I really hope they draft a DE or OLB in the 1st round. Getting Brown back with A Robinson and what DJ has shown that we can have a decent D-line. Need a CB in the early rounds/ or a time FA to go with Horn.  The future as to next year being good enough to challenge for the division is within reach. Just show progress (win or lose) every week. Kudos to Dan Morgan. Plays GM like a LB. Tackle the problem and move on, don't just hope it works out. Find guys with your playing mentality and work closely with your HC to share a vision. Teamwork starts at the top and flows down. 
    • Since we play the Panthers today and tmrw, we will have one gigantic double thread for both games. Today’s game is at 3pm and tmrw is 7pm.    After beating the Rangers and sending the those yankee bastards back to Cary, we get the Champs in the house.  Clean up the defense, no more lazy clears, and score baby score.  LFG CANES!
×
×
  • Create New...