Newton's Prototype

[chef17]

lolridiculousexpectationsoutofrookie

No one said they expected it for a rookie.

[rico6]

Sorry, I meant requirements.

[blackcatgrowl]

No one said they expected it for a rookie.

Here's the thing though...

If Cam were to throw between two defenders we'd read:

"Cam needs to improve his reads and stop taking unnecessary risks."

If Tom Brady throws the exact same pass we'd read:

"What an amazing throw! Perfect spiral! He threaded a needle!"

And I know that this would be how it goes down, because this is the crap we've seen since February around here regarding him.

[Mr. Scot]

LOL... I knew you'd be unable to respond.

Actually, I just did. Waiting for your counter argument.

You do have one...right?

You made the comment that Newton is not pin point accurate. The onus is on you.

Give us a specific frame of reference to show us how to look for "pin point accuracy". Like, what percentage of passes need to hit the receivers hands versus how many passes did they have to jump up to catch.

I'm willing you can't give us this. Why? Because your entire point of view on Newton is subjective factless nonsense. It has been from the start.

Already told you completion percentage doesn't tell the story.

If you think it does, here's who was more "pinpoint accurate" than Newton yesterday.

Alex Amith (75%)

Luke McCown (70.8%)

Andy Dalton (66.7%)

Kevin Kolb (66.7%)

And a couple of guys who were close...

Tony Romo (63.9%)

Rex Grossman (61.8%)

For the record, the absolute worst completion percentage of the day belonged to Michael Vick (43.8%) yet everyone was raving about how good he looked yesterday.

And just for giggles, here's another guy who had a 64% completion percentage over a three game span. Might not seem like much, but we're talking about Newton's for a single game.

Jake Delhomme - 2007 (64% completion percentage)

Guess Delhomme was "pinpoint accurate" too :sosp:

So, explain to me again how completion percentage is the best way to measure accuracy?

[mav1234]

What I saw in the preseason made me think Cam was as far from "pinpoint accurate" as you could get, but he made some good throws and from what I saw this weekend his ball placement was good and usually right where he needed for it to be for his guy to make a play on it.

I'm not so sure what I think of Cam's accuracy anymore - everything up to last night's game had me thinking he wasn't all that accurate at this point in time. What he did last night challenged a lot of that. I don't want to draw any conclusions because honestly I'm still in shock at seeing this team with a strong passing offense and I'm afraid I'll jinx it, but he certainly showed what he Panthers believed he could do when they drafted him #1 overall.

I'm not Mr. Scot so I can't tell you much about what he thinks of pin point accuracy, and even I don't have a statistical category for "pinpoint accuracy," but when I think of Brees, Manning, Brady as examples of guys who have demonstrated it in the past, I think of times when they deliver the ball not only where only their guy can catch it, but also to a receiver in stride at the exact right time for that player to make a play. I have no idea if Cam will get to this point as often as some of those guys do or not, but he's made a couple of throws that roughly fit that bill.

Also, I don't think gunslingers are by definition inaccurate passers or anything like that. It's more that they are unafraid to take huge shots down the field on any play. It's just another term people use to describe a quarterback, but it's not meant to be used to rank people.

edit: Accuracy is not a stat recorded in typical box scores. There are coaches who track such things but most of us have to rely on watching a player play.

[Mr. Scot]

Here's the thing though...

If Cam were to throw between two defenders we'd read:

"Cam needs to improve his reads and stop taking unnecessary risks."

If Tom Brady throws the exact same pass we'd read:

"What an amazing throw! Perfect spiral! He threaded a needle!"

And I know that this would be how it goes down, because this is the crap we've seen since February around here regarding him.

Passes tend to get called great decisions or poor ones based on whether or not they're completed, not who threw them.

Does Brady get called out for dumb decisions? Generally not. He does make them though, but Super Bowl rings will buy you a lot of deference.

Again, as long as we win, who cares if it looks good or not?

[Mr. Scot]

What I saw in the preseason made me think Cam was as far from "pinpoint accurate" as you could get, but he made some good throws and from what I saw this weekend his ball placement was good and usually right where he needed for it to be for his guy to make a play on it.

I'm not so sure what I think of Cam's accuracy anymore - everything up to last night's game had me thinking he wasn't all that accurate at this point in time. What he did last night challenged a lot of that. I don't want to draw any conclusions because honestly I'm still in shock at seeing this team with a strong passing offense and I'm afraid I'll jinx it, but he certainly showed what he Panthers believed he could do when they drafted him #1 overall.

I'm not Mr. Scot so I can't tell you much about what he thinks of pin point accuracy, and even I don't have a statistical category for "pinpoint accuracy," but when I think of Brees, Manning, Brady as examples of guys who have demonstrated it in the past, I think of times when they deliver the ball not only where only their guy can catch it, but also to a receiver in stride at the exact right time for that player to make a play. I have no idea if Cam will get to this point as often as some of those guys do or not, but he's made a couple of throws that roughly fit that bill.

Also, I don't think gunslingers are by definition inaccurate passers or anything like that. It's more that they are unafraid to take huge shots down the field on any play. It's just another term people use to describe a quarterback, but it's not meant to be used to rank people.

edit: Accuracy is not a stat recorded in typical box scores. There are coaches who track such things but most of us have to rely on watching a player play.

:thumbsup:

[chef17]

Here's the thing though...

If Cam were to throw between two defenders we'd read:

"Cam needs to improve his reads and stop taking unnecessary risks."

If Tom Brady throws the exact same pass we'd read:

"What an amazing throw! Perfect spiral! He threaded a needle!"

And I know that this would be how it goes down, because this is the crap we've seen since February around here regarding him.

You are likely right. But IMO that is pinpoint accuracy. It isn't simply competition percentage. It is hitting a receiver in the smallest of windows. And I don't think Mr. Scot was saying Newton should be able to do that. He was pointing out that because of his skill set, Cam won't need to make those passes in order to win.

[Mr. Scot]

You are likely right. But IMO that is pinpoint accuracy. It isn't simply competition percentage. It is hitting a receiver in the smallest of windows. And I don't think Mr. Scot was saying Newton should be able to do that. He was pointing out that because of his skill same, Cam won't need to make those passes in order to win.

Bingo :thumbsup:

Also saying that it affects how you coach him. You don't want to try and turn him into a Peyton Manning. Better to emphasize what he does well and minimize the weaknesses.

Style doesn't equal ability.

[blackcatgrowl]

You are likely right. But IMO that is pinpoint accuracy. It isn't simply competition percentage. It is hitting a receiver in the smallest of windows. And I don't think Mr. Scot was saying Newton should be able to do that. He was pointing out that because of his skill set, Cam won't need to make those passes in order to win.

If that's the way you define "pin point accurate" then I submit it is not a good thing. If you are throwing to double coverage, you're not making a read somewhere else.

And even at that, how in the hell do you define "not pin point accurate" from one NFL game?

The comment is ridiculous. No, its absurd.

Coupled with his "Mike Shula got Cam ready" thread, his attitude about Cam from the start, you can't take what Scot says about Cam seriously. It's nothing but subjectivity and downplay on him as a player.

[blackcatgrowl]

What I saw in the preseason

I don't have to read the rest of your post. Because basing anything on preseason play is the #1 way to not look at a player correctly.

Passes tend to get called great decisions or poor ones based on whether or not they're completed, not who threw them.

Where's my BS meter...

Oh, it broke on that line.

Does Brady get called out for dumb decisions? Generally not. He does make them though, but Super Bowl rings will buy you a lot of deference.

Again, as long as we win, who cares if it looks good or not?

You obviously do. Else you wouldn't have started this thread.

And again... taking a shot at the loss... you must think you're smooth or something with the innuendos. Trust me, I'm not the only one who sees past em man. :rolleyes:

Unreal. I'm having to defend our NFL-Record breaking starter from "not pin point accurate" claims.

:rolleyes5::rolleyes5::rolleyes5:

[Jackofalltrades]

You just like to argue don't you?

[blackcatgrowl]

You just like to argue don't you?

It's not about me. I didn't start the thread. I didn't make subjective statements about him.

Shame on me for giving 100% support for our #1 draft pick I guess. :conf:

[mav1234]

I don't have to read the rest of your post. Because basing anything on preseason play is the #1 way to not look at a player correctly.

that's how it goes in this league, especially when guys are in competition with one another. Preseason play is very important, especially in evaluating young guys who haven't had a lot of regular season game time (obviously not the only thing but it's up there). Preseason stats are unimportant, and while preseason performance doesn't tell you for sure how a guy will do in the regular season it can give you an idea. The difficulty here for fans is that we aren't privy to a lot of the information that coaches use to evaluate in those situations.

Saying Cam isn't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning shouldn't be an insult... Brady and Manning weren't Brady and Manning as rookies, either...

I don't really see why anyone could be sure that Cam will never have accuracy like those guys, but I also don't think we can say he does right now either. I don't think he needs to be as accurate as them in order to be an elite QB so I don't really worry about it.