Panthers Scouting Pat White hard

[ChucktownK]

I think if I didn't like black people/players it would be impossible to watch an NFL football game...LOL!

[mantal]

buddy, don't you dare to assume you know how i feel on the subject or where i'm coming from because obviously you don't.

i'm not part of any conspiracy or offline convos or whatever you are talking about and i seriously don't care about color, don't think it matters, and i get pissed when people turn what shouldn't be an issue into an major issue.

the color of you or anyone else means NOTHING to me. i don't care. believe that or not. i was raised to believe that everyone should be looked at equally and with love and do so regardless of skin color. i base opinions and judgment on what people do, not on what color they are. nothing else matters.

man, this really bugs me.

if you think you have stepped on a sensitive issue, you have. i hate it when race is made an issue but i hate it even more when i am accused of doing just that.

i would say i don't care what you think and i shouldn't but i do and not because of your skin color. i do not like that being assumed of me ever. don't do it.

About a perfect post. KT does more to hurt his race than anything with every post he makes. It's absolutely ridiculous, he's the only true racist I've seen in years...

[Mr. Scot]

Scot & Panthers55 have issue with lumping Steve Young with running QBs, because they fully understand how limiting labeling a QB a running QB is. For their dated theory to work, Steve Young who is one of the greatest QBs to play the game cant be associated with those guys. I never once called Young a bad passer or stated he could not pass. Just that his mobility and ability to improvise passes was his strong suit as a player.

What it shows most clearly is that either you don't understand football or you're letting your racial biases determine your viewpoints.

One more time here are the definitions:

A mobile quarterback is one that can both run and pass effectively. Their primary weapon is always the pass, but they can run if needed and/or to keep defenses honest. This is the category in which guys like Steve Young, John Elway and Steve McNair fit.

A running quarterback (also referred to as a run first quarterback or a one read and run quarterback) is one that has the athleticism to be an effective runner but who is a mediocre passer at best. Michael Vick is the prime example here, with Vince Young and Eric Crouch also fitting into this description.

If you can't get it based on this, you're not going to.

I'd add that pointing out that a lot of pocket passers have been failures doesn't really help your argument given that plenty of running QBs have been failures as well. Out of the hundreds of QBs of any style that try to make it into the league every year, only a handful make it, and the vast majority of them are guys that show they can pass, regardless of whether or not they can run.

And again, I've asked you to show me an example of any quarterback who has the profile of "good runner/lousy passer" that's had any sustained postseason success. You haven't, and with reason. Because it hasn't happened.

Truth be told, Michael Vick and Vince Young have likely done significant damage to the cause of the running QB. These guys were athletic freaks. If teams couldn't sustain consistent success with them, how can they expect to do so with lesser talents?

Simple reality is that passing will always trump running when it comes to evaluating quarterbacks at the pro level, which is why quarterbacks like Michael Vick and Eric Crouch have a ceiling on their success level. In the past, some teams would take a chance on this type, but the lack of success those teams have had has lessened the number of teams willing to take that gamble (and rightly so).

Passing ability in a QB is more important than running ability, always will be, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with what color they are in the real world. The only place where it matters is in the minds of racists, both the white ones and the black ones.

[King Taharqa]

About a perfect post. KT does more to hurt his race than anything with every post he makes. It's absolutely ridiculous, he's the only true racist I've seen in years...

KT is hurting his race by being so outspoken about how black QBs get the short end of the stick time and time again. Obviously KT is the only black fan or player who feels that way. KT is a racist for saying Warren Moon was viewed more as a WR than a QB in the early 80s simply because he had melanin in his skin. 30 years later, not much is changed and Pat White is viewed pretty much the same. KT is a racist for pointing out the fact that a large chunk of the Panthers fanbase most hated player is a running black QB that regularly beat them. KT is a racist for calling Steve Young a "running" QB. How racist of him, only black QBs should have that label applied to them. KT is a racist for pointing out the conservative branch of this board would've drafted Tim Couch over Don McNabb simply because he's the more "traditional" view of what a QB is, and they would've been wrong just like the Browns.

[King Taharqa]

And again, I've asked you to show me an example of any quarterback who has the profile of "good runner/lousy passer" that's had any sustained postseason success. You haven't, and with reason. Because it hasn't happened.

Truth be told, Michael Vick and Vince Young have likely done significant damage to the cause of the running QB. These guys were athletic freaks. If teams couldn't sustain consistent success with them, how can they expect to do so with lesser talents?

OK, so Vince Young and Michael Vick. 2 QBs who have a knack for leaving the pocket and are not prolific passers are the standard for black QBs. Because they cant pass well we shouldnt give Pat White a chance as a QB. And we should be skeptical of any black QB that can move around in the pocket because of those two. I got you. Cuz those are pretty much the only two that fall into your "great runner/lousy passer" category. Ive given you names of QBs who were mobile and flourished in this league. You pretty much are stuck on your Vick/Young thing and aim to use them as the scapegoat of why a QB with Pat's skills should never be given a chance. And as stated before, combined those two horrible QBs are 7-3 against your favorite football team, have both played in playoff games (with Vick winning a few) and led their teams to winning records. But black QBs cant be considered "successful" until they win a Super Bowl right? Thats the standard of success right?

Simple reality is that passing will always trump running when it comes to evaluating quarterbacks at the pro level, which is why quarterbacks like Michael Vick and Eric Crouch have a ceiling on their success level. In the past, some teams would take a chance on this type, but the lack of success those teams have had has lessened the number of teams willing to take that gamble (and rightly so).

So basically Pat White is Mike Vick and Eric Crouch? He cant pass right? You put a premium on strict pocket passing. I put a premium on both the ability to pass and the ability to improvise. Im not surprised you put more value into a Drew Bledsoe/Kerry Collins type of QB than you would a Mike Vick or Randall Cunningham type QB. Its the only style of QB the team you root for has ever employed.

Passing ability in a QB is more important than running ability, always will be, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with what color they are in the real world. The only place where it matters is in the minds of racists, both the white ones and the black ones.

Still stuck in the 1950s. In today's NFL, the ability to improvise is at a premium. How did the game's best passer Peyton Manning do this year in the playoffs? 1st round exit. What about immobile pocket passing Kerry Collins? 1st round exit. Ben Rothlisberger showed that your QB needs to be able to scramble and make things happen with his feet more so than just standing in the pocket all game picking up passing yards. Drew Brees passed for more yards than anybody this season, did he make it into the playoffs? Your ideas are dated Scot. But hey, better to stay conservative and be wrong, then to consider change and risk being right eh? LOL.

[ashehudson]

Hate to say it KT, but everything they (I'm talking about EVERY reporter covering the draft, not Panther fans) are saying about Pat White, they are also saying about The Golden Calf of Bristol, who is a white running QB.... Color has nothing to do with it and you are turning this into a silly racial argument.

Are you going to start defending The Golden Calf of Bristol too?

[Fireball77]

Give Drew Brees Roethlisberger's defense and you think they wouldn't have plowed their way through the playoffs?

IMO, improvisers who are athletic need to develop the mental part of their game or once their athletic ability declines, they will not be very valuable. Brees has the mental part down. We don't know yet if Roethlisberger will or not. Or Romo either for that matter.

[King Taharqa]

Hate to say it KT, but everything they (I'm talking about EVERY reporter covering the draft, not Panther fans) are saying about Pat White, they are also saying about The Golden Calf of Bristol, who is a white running QB.... Color has nothing to do with it and you are turning this into a silly racial argument.

Are you going to start defending The Golden Calf of Bristol too?

If The Golden Calf of Bristol says he wants to be a QB on the next level he deserves a chance to prove that like anyone else.

[Kevin Greene]

Pat White is an outstanding talent and would be the steal of the draft for the Panthers. Rarely can one add such talent to a roster.

And once we convert him to wide receiver/kick returner he should be a servicable Pro for years to come. :thumbsup:

[King Taharqa]

Give Drew Brees Roethlisberger's defense and you think they wouldn't have plowed their way through the playoffs?

I have no reason to believe that. Drew Brees couldnt win a playoff game when he had San Diego's D. His playoff record rests at 1-2. His regular season winning percentage rests 4 games above .500. No one will deem Brees' career as unsuccessful at this point though because he's a pretty passer. But he hasnt proven to be a WINNER. Brees is 2-5 as a starter vs. the Panthers, Mike Vick is 6-3. Scot will tell you Brees is the better QB and more dangerous though. LOL.

[ashehudson]

If The Golden Calf of Bristol says he wants to be a QB on the next level he deserves a chance to prove that like anyone else.

I honestly think that with the popularity of the wildcat offense that sprouted last year, running QBs could fit very well into the next offensive evolution. Trust me, I'd love to have a dual threat QB if it worked. Bring on any QB that can give me both at a high level very consistently.

The problem is, RBs are the most beat up players on the team. I'd rather have a non-injured QB that rarely gets hit then one who gets tackled all the time and takes the same abuse that a RB takes.

[Murph]

The wildcat sprouted last year?

[ashehudson]

The wildcat sprouted last year?

Bad use of terms, but it did become popular in the NFL last year out.

[Fireball77]

I have no reason to believe that. Drew Brees couldnt win a playoff game when he had San Diego's D. His playoff record rests at 1-2. His regular season winning percentage rests 4 games above .500. No one will deem Brees' career as unsuccessful at this point though because he's a pretty passer. But he hasnt proven to be a WINNER. Brees is 2-5 as a starter vs. the Panthers, Mike Vick is 6-3. Scot will tell you Brees is the better QB and more dangerous though. LOL.

I agree that Brees seems to be missing some clutch factor or something, like I think Palmer does, but I will never ever subscribe to that "QB has a win-loss record" thing...ever. This isn't baseball and they aren't pitchers.