Panthers Scouting Pat White hard

[stewkilla]

I think we need to trade Peppers and Delhomme for Cutler and a 2nd Rd pick, even though Cutler is a whiney player he still has a hell of an arm.

[frash.exe]

I like Nate Davis better as a QB prospect personally. His pro day workout is Friday I think.

[Cyberjag]

I've explained a fairly simple point a thousand times, and yet you still don't seem to get it. Not every QB who can run is a "run-first" QB :nonod:

He doesn't want to get it, it undermines his "every white person is a racist" worldview.

[panthers55]

Steve Young baby. If there were a black QB who played with Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens and had more rushing TDs than Randall, and more rushing attempts and yards than Michael Vick, no one would hesitate to call him a "run first" QB. The guy was a gutsy player who put up 4200 rushing yards man. Look at any bio on Steve and it'll detail how he was always a dominant scrambler even going back to his high school days. He was also a very efficient passer, but his mobility is a big part of what made him great.

Ive given you names of QBs who've been successful as scramblers and improvising in the passing game. Ive also given you names of less mobile pocket passers who came in with alot of hype and fizzled in this league. We can sit here all day. Tim Couch, David Carr, Alex Smith, Kyle Boller, Matt Leinart. All 1st round QBs who havent quite made a splash on this league. Carson Palmer is a former #1 overall draft pick and the highest paid QB in the league. Never won a playoff game and his winning percentage rests barely above .500. Hell even Jay Cutler is a 1st round QB with a losing percentage as a starter and has very questionable leadership ability. That aint stopping alot of our fans from salivating over him. Pocket passers who lack the metal to improvise in and out of the pocket are having a hard time producing in today's NFL.

With a player like Pat White it gives you the best of both worlds because he has the ability to scramble and pick up yards and 1st downs. But he also gives you that player that can make the throws to sustain a drive or find one of our studs downfield. He's also gonna make your running game alot better too. His ability to lead and bond with his teammates is also SEVERELY underrated. People are afraid that a Pat White CAN be successful and make that 1950s QB philosophy yall typing look like the joke that it is.

You can't look at Steve Young who threw for 33,000 yards in his career and 6 times approached 4000 yards in a season and call him a running quarterback. He was a great throwing quarterback who could run as well. But he was definitely not a run first or second quarterback.

Randall Cunningham was more of a mixed bag. He was not a great passer and in fact was mediocre much of the time. He had a 56% career completion rate but a good YPA and TD to Int ratio. He did throw for almost 30,000 yards so he was hardly a run first quarterback. And he wasn't that elusive. he got sacked 72 times in 1986 and on four occasions was sacked at least 50 times. As a longtime Philly fan I watched him play every week.

No way were either of them similar to Vick who never threw for more than 3000 yards or more than 20 TDs in a season. Figure it out. he averaged less than 200 yards passing a game and averaged 1 passing TD per game. That doesn't make him a passing quarterback at all. Plus in 4 1/2 seasons Vick ran for almost as much as Cunningham did in at least twice that length of time.

Problem with your numbers is that they are all jumbled, aren't comparing the same length of time and make little sense, much like your logic.

As for Pat White- lets wait until he at least makes it in the league and plays a down or two before we compare him to pro bowlers and in Young's case a HOFer.

As for Norm Van Brocklin, you really used a poor example there. He led the league 3 time in passing whereas no panther quarterback has done that. He also led the league in punting 2 years as well. He was an incredible athlete for his time and played multiple positions. And honestly comparing stats or players from the fifties to today's players makes no sense. They played in different eras with different rules. For example you said that Steve Young was a run first quarterback while Norm was a pure pocket passer yet Young threw for almost 10,000 yards more than Norm did. But they played in very different systems with very different rules which has increasingly favored the offense.

[SmAsHmoUTh!!!]

If we can get him with out late 2nd round pick I say do it. Imagine him in shotgun with D.Will and Stewart.

[Mr. Scot]

Steve Young baby. If there were a black QB who played with Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens and had more rushing TDs than Randall, and more rushing attempts and yards than Michael Vick, no one would hesitate to call him a "run first" QB. The guy was a gutsy player who put up 4200 rushing yards man. Look at any bio on Steve and it'll detail how he was always a dominant scrambler even going back to his high school days. He was also a very efficient passer, but his mobility is a big part of what made him great.

You still don't get it. At this point, I seriously doubt you're going to.

The notion that Steve Young could be considered a run-first or one-read-and-run QB is laughable.

[carolinarolls]

..King Taharqa is laughable

[carolinarolls]

Cutler couldn't do it.

Is this supposed to mean something?

[The Link]

There arent that many as talented as Marino or Peyton, but that doesnt stop teams from drafting the Tim Couches, Joey Harringtons, and Alex Smiths of the world now does it? Speaking of Couch, going by the 1950s prehistoric QB logic so many in this Panther fanbase seem to grasp too, Tim Couch should've been a better NFL QB than Donovan McNabb who was drafted after him. Couch is 6'4 230 lb pocket passer. He was fiery, had a cannon arm and had all the measurables and qualities so many believe the prototype QB is. Then you had the smaller Donovan McNabb who was a scrambler that people questioned as a QB and passer coming into the draft. Couch is one of the all time BUSTS. Donovan McNabb is a franchise QB with 10 years under his belt.

Black QBs are judged by a different standard. Its common knowledge. If the guy has heart & ability, then people question his measurables (Donovan McNabb, Pat White). If he has the measurables, then people question his intelligence and heart (Russell, Brooks, Young). In both cases, if they have athletic ability to run the ball its automatically assumed they cant produce in the passing game. They also dont hang around in the league as long.

Wow. Just....Wow...

[mantal]

He doesn't want to get it, it undermines his "every white person is a racist" worldview.

This...

[The Link]

He doesn't want to get it, it undermines his "every white person is a racist" worldview.

[rayzor]

this thread was going good until it got to being about race.

if pat white gets drafted by us it's because he's black?

if he doesn't get drafted by us it's because he's black?

how about drafting him because he would be the best person for the job or not drafting him because we wanted another player?

find the right man for the right job regardless of color.

it shouldn't come into play at all and it pisses me off that it is considered one way or another.

it's time to move forward.

i have a dream that we can.

[carpanfan96]

I thought this debate was ended when the stats were posted comparing 5 year spans.

While there first two years were comparable stat wise, You can't really judge Young again until 6 - 7 years later when he was starting again for SF. ( Young was benched and traded for having comparable stats to Vick).

Then didn't start in SF for another 6 years, sure he played in some games and started a game or two, but he wasn't the starter in SF for 6 years after they picked him up. He had time to learn the system and learn behind Montana. By the time he became a starter again, he was in his 30's. Although he still ran a lot, he didn't run nearly as much as he did when he did in his early career or as much as Vick.

I posted the stats of Young's first 5 years as a starter from the time he played a full season to 97 and I compared it to Vick's stats. Vick ran a lot more then Young did. Your comparing a 14 year career to 5 years for Vick, that's just ridiculous and you know it.

[carpanfan96]

You still don't get it. At this point, I seriously doubt you're going to.

The notion that Steve Young could be considered a run-first or one-read-and-run QB is laughable.

You might be able to make that comparison for his first two years. If you do that while he was at SF, your just stretching for straws at that point. As while he was with SF he was definitely a pass first QB, and could Definitely read the field. Had awesome accuracy as well.