Cutler should be a legit thought...

[jpniner]

if we had drafted Brady Quinn instead of trading down for Beason, we'd have a better shot at making this happen.

Broncos have to get a good, young QB in return for this to be feasible. If they trade a franchise QB away the fans would never forgive them

[Fox007]

I won't argue the fact that the Giants have been to the playoffs many times, I just feel that the Chargers have had better teams than the Giants for the past 3-4 years.

Lets take into effect the teams that the Giants have had to beat to get to the SB as opposed to the teams that SD has had to beat to get there as well. The AFC playoff contenders have been much much stronger than the NFC counterparts for the past 5 years or so.....

Pats, Steelers, Indy, Tenn, SD....ect...

And while the tides seem to be turning to the NFC getting much stronger, I have to wonder if the top 4 NFC teams are as good as the top 4 AFC teams.

Yup that is the angle I would have took too.

The AFC has had much harder competition. BUT

They had to beat that AFC team to actually be Champs.(and that wasn't just some slouch AFC team either....)

Dammit talking about the Pats pisses me off, if we would have had our RB's that SB we would have clobbered them (k mini rant off)

[Murph]

[thefuzz]

Well the deal obviously wasn't so much better for the Chargers, that it put them over the top.

I mean the Giants couldn't win a SB with Collins, Warner, and good players like Barber and Strahen. Manning won with practically the same team(or arguable a worse team with less talent), so you couldn't have just inserted random QB in their situation.

Warner obviously just made it to the SB.......and Collins took his team to the Playoffs

Plus Manning actually started 7 games his rookie year, so yes his stats are going to reflect that. Rivers started his first game almost 2 full years after manning did.

Strahan was on the SB team. And they had beefed up the D big time Osi, and Mathias..They were, and still are very stout on D.

Take out Eli's first two seasons and compare the past 3, that should do it.

[thefuzz]

Yup that is the angle I would have took too.

The AFC has had much harder competition. BUT

They had to beat that AFC team to actually be Champs.(and that wasn't just some slouch AFC team either....)

Dammit talking about the Pats pisses me off, if we would have had our RB's that SB we would have clobbered them (k mini rant off)

I absolutely give the Giants credit for what they did, it shocked the hell outta me to be honest.

The good news is the NFC seems to be getting better every year, and hopefully we can start running the table on the SB like they have for sooo long.

[Fox007]

Strahan was on the SB team. And they had beefed up the D big time Osi, and Mathias..They were, and still are very stout on D.

Take out Eli's first two seasons and compare the past 3, that should do it.

I know he was, I was talking about Shockey and Barber mainly.(although I hate their personalities)

You can't take out the first two season, because you don't know how bad that may have affected him, we have seen time and time again how starting too soon has a negative effect on a QB.(for the long term)

Manning just didn't 'bust' as it were.

[Fireball77]

I am a pretty big Charger fan, probably as you can tell.

Yes I have known that for awhile, but I am certainly in NO POSITION EVER to give anyone crap about being a 2-team person...

They still gave LT wayyy too much IMO. I know it was for the fanbase, but still too much for a 30 yr old rb.....just my opinion. LT made the right choice, to stay where he is a god to the fans...however the Chargers can cut him after this season, or trade him with very little owed money, if he cannot perform. The contract protects the Bolts after this upcoming year. This was also a good PR move to prepare the fans for his departure if he does not play well. IMO

I haven't read the particulars of the contract but I will take your word. Either way, I think he probably has 2 more productive years left in him as a complementary guy which will serve as a transition.

Jyles Tucker was signed after Merriman was hurt, but before he decided to go on IR after the first game against us. He was hurt in the playoffs against TN when Mahwae (sp) hit him low while he was ingaged up top....nasty play.

Honestly as much as I bag on soft serve Wade as a HC, I do think he's a helluva DC and I think that had more to do with the defense sucking it up last year even though Cotrell was there in 07 also right? I usually think it takes a full year to see what a defense/offense will be under a new coordinator or HC. But, once Rivera took over for Cottrell didn't the D started to play a bit better?

Mawae is a notorious filthbag. I didn't realize Tucker got the deal after Merriman was known to be hurt such that he couldn't play anymore in 2008.

Well the deal obviously wasn't so much better for the Chargers, that it put them over the top.

I mean the Giants couldn't win a SB with Collins, Warner, and good players like Barber and Strahen. Manning won with practically the same team(or arguable a worse team with less talent), so you couldn't have just inserted random QB in their situation.

I agree, not any old random QB, but I disagree that the NYG talent was significantly worse under Eli. His whole starting tenure there except last year they had Osi, Strahan, a great running game and a pretty good receiving corps. He just has to be a link in the chain and do his job which is really what he has done since the playoffs of 2007. They still primarliy win because they have a good to great D and a stellar run game.

Also, the Giants' multiple playoff appearances lately are under Coughlin. I think he is a big factor as well. As was Spags. And the player personnel people. I like Accorsi a bunch,and I like Eli, but I still think he was QUAZY to trade that much for Eli. I give him this much though, at this point in time he still feels he made the right decision, so he had and still has conviction.

To the actual topic at hand...

Madden fantasies aside, it ain't happenin :nonod:

I know I hijacked it a whole bunch but I don't feel bad one bit because the topic has been discussed over a huge array of threads already.

[Fox007]

Yea they have good coaching, hard coaching too. DC especially.

Osi has been on the team longer than Manning, so that don't count, only adds to the other QB's couldn't get it done statement.

Still though keep everything in place except Manning, and they have no ring........

[Fox007]

For the record I would take Rivers over Manning, no question.

But I do think it's because Manning got a bit screwed up after having to start much earlier and Rivers got to polish a bit.

Not to mention NY is harder to play in than SD, both weather and media scrutiny.

You seriously have to consider those two factors.

[thefuzz]

Yes I have known that for awhile, but I am certainly in NO POSITION EVER to give anyone crap about being a 2-team person...

I haven't read the particulars of the contract but I will take your word. Either way, I think he probably has 2 more productive years left in him as a complementary guy which will serve as a transition.

Honestly as much as I bag on soft serve Wade as a HC, I do think he's a helluva DC and I think that had more to do with the defense sucking it up last year even though Cotrell was there in 07 also right? I usually think it takes a full year to see what a defense/offense will be under a new coordinator or HC. But, once Rivera took over for Cottrell didn't the D started to play a bit better?

Mawae is a notorious filthbag. I didn't realize Tucker got the deal after Merriman was known to be hurt such that he couldn't play anymore in 2008.

I agree, not any old random QB, but I disagree that the NYG talent was significantly worse under Eli. His whole starting tenure there except last year they had Osi, Strahan, a great running game and a pretty good receiving corps. He just has to be a link in the chain and do his job which is really what he has done since the playoffs of 2007. They still primarliy win because they have a good to great D and a stellar run game.

Also, the Giants' multiple playoff appearances lately are under Coughlin. I think he is a big factor as well. As was Spags. And the player personnel people. I like Accorsi a bunch,and I like Eli, but I still think he was QUAZY to trade that much for Eli. I give him this much though, at this point in time he still feels he made the right decision, so he had and still has conviction.

I know I hijacked it a whole bunch but I don't feel bad one bit because the topic has been discussed over a huge array of threads already.

Thanks, I usually get a ton of grief for being a fan of two teams.

The contract just moved money around into bonuses and such...same amount, just reflects differently on the books. And I agree with you as well, on the 2 year thing. If he can get over the groin injury, and thats a big if, he should be a good hb for a while longer. There aren't many out there that train any harder in the offseason than LT.

The D started playing much better, but I am not so sure that it was Cottrell or Rivera, my opinion is they figured out how to play without a huge pass rush, which can be a problem for 3-4 teams, and Jamal Williams got healthy, and back to form at the NT position, another big piece of the 3-4 machine. And you are right, Wade is a mastermind of the 3-4, his experience in running that D was sorely missed. He will be back to DC in another year if I had my guess.

Yup, Titans playoff game Merriman got a shoulder right to the knee, on a very dirty play, and like you said Mawae is a nasty player, and knew what he was doing. There was a ton of rumors that Fisher told his O line to take out Merriman, and while I normally don't buy that kinda stuff, I think that I remember there being more to it than just jibber jabber.....

The team was pretty upset that Merriman did not have the procedure done in the offseason, but he thought that he could play, but couldn't. After hearing of the injury to him and after Jyles Tucker's breakout game against that Raiders they signed him to a 5 year deal, but not worth as much as the contract said....it was all backloaded.

[Fireball77]

Fox007:I agree about the weather and media. Eli does struggle with the wind a bit though. I don't think he handled it any better than Jake did in that game they played last year. As to the media part, it's one of the reasons I respect Eli because of the way he handles that.

I also agree that without the way Eli played IN THE PLAYOFFS in 2007 they likely wouldn't have a ring. His regular season was pretty tough IIRC.

[thefuzz]

Fox007:I agree about the weather and media. Eli does struggle with the wind a bit though. I don't think he handled it any better than Jake did in that game they played last year. As to the media part, it's one of the reasons I respect Eli because of the way he handles that.

I also agree that without the way Eli played IN THE PLAYOFFS in 2007 they likely wouldn't have a ring. His regular season was pretty tough IIRC.

I will not take anything away from Eli, at all. NY is a tough place to play no doubt, but I don't think that he is any better than above average.

It will be interesting to see if he becomes a more vocal leader of that team, because he has yet to do that.

[Fireball77]

Well you know me fuzz...I would rather have an average/above average type QB who doesn't demand a huge contract who is mentally tough (among other intangible type things) than a whiny, selfish brat with talent who is gonna cost a shitload of dough to keep/get (Cutler reference to keep this on point...sort of..lol). My only issue with Eli is what it cost(s) for him (especially if he gets a HUMONGOUS new contract as is rumored he will) vs. his production. He's never going to be a rah rah guy, and while I like that outwardly competitive type better, all that matters leadership wise is that he has the respect of his teammates, and he does.

[panthersphan]

I would take him...he's better than ANYTHING we've ever had at QB...ever....