What does Cam have to do

[CRA]

the real answer is this....

make the fanbase forget there are other QBs on the roster.

[Catalyst]

Realistically? 5-7 wins, 2000-2500 yards, 10-15 TD's, less than 20 INT's + 400 or so yards rushing and 5+ TD's on the ground. Give or take.

[TheRealDeal]

History says they all lead to one thing: lack of development of NFL level passing skills.

This is a huge point that people are missing. They'll make excuses for him throughout the process but never admit that the root of his problem is either his work ethic or his experiences in college. They use it as a crutch when try watch him play and post here but they'll never admit we drafted a runner and are trying to make him a passer because they know what that means for the future.

Blindly support all decisions by the FO or you aren't a real fan :lol:

[TheRealDeal]

I also love how the Huggers are more wishy washy with their predictions than anyone. 2000-2500 yards? That's not a big range or anything...

@teeray...INT in the "low teens"...ninja please. You'd be happy with 55%? that's success for someone who was 66% in college and was even better against pressure? What happened to all those NFL throws? Do you mean to say his stats were hugely influenced by swings and screens? How many yards do you need?

[Udogg]

Most of the people here were projecting. You know like you are doing. They "projected" that ultimately Cam would be a good to great QB. Most here said that he would come in his rookie year struggle but show signs of the QB he would be in the future. Cam has shown he has the ability to make every throw you want in the NFL. The problem thus far has been the consistency. Whether that gets fixed puts you in the believers or doubter section of the argument.

Just to head you off from the next few post:

You are going to take a quote from a heated argument from one of the "extremist" and say "Look see you guys said that Cam was going to be Peyton Manning this year and everything he did in college would translate to the NFL immediately".

Then someone will post your full of it.

Then you will respond with "but Cam knows 90% of the playbook, trained 12 hours a day, and has flawless mechanics."

Or some other post that ignores anything that doesn't validate your point that Cam is a "project" 4th round pick at best.

just trying to save you time.

[CRA]

Every single player before him has. Can you not at least admit that you are holding out hope that he is THE FIRST who will be different?

This is an honest stance: "I believe Cam is so good that he will be the first running QB to succeed in the NFL".

Claiming that running QBs HAVE succeeded in the NFL is simply not accurate in any way.

What defines a QB as a running QB? Also, what is your definition of NFL success.

There have been tons of successful QBs who have relied on their legs as key part of their game. But again, it depends on what you are willing to define NFL "success" as

[KJDaniel31]

What defines a QB as a running QB? Also, what is your definition of NFL success.

There have been tons of successful QBs who have relied on their legs as key part of their game. But again, it depends on what you are willing to define NFL "success" as

To save the board....I'd say go back and read this thread. I explained it pretty thorough. I'd love to get your thoughts on it

[CRA]

To save the board....I'd say go back and read this thread. I explained it pretty thorough. I'd love to get your thoughts on it

what page did you define what NFL success means and I will go back and read it. I see where you said no running QB in history has found success......

also, I didn't see where you stated what defines someone as a running QB in the NFL.

There are many that meet my definition of a running NFL QB AND have found success.

Hard to talk about it when I don't know which guys I can't and can consider runners in the NFL.....same for success.

is Vick a running QB

was Cunningham

was Young

who is and who isn't.....there are tons of QBs who ran as a big part of their game in the NFL.

also is success only defined by Superbowl rings? is success stats? Winning more than losing?

I haven't read all the junk in this thread but you said in NFL history no running QB has found success and that isn't true.

[CLTPanther]

I consider him a success if he makes this year more fun than last and continues to improve as the year goes along.

[teeray]

B/c I was under the impression we were having a realistic discussion. Anyone can invent a wild hypothetical which resembles no player who ever existed to make a point. What does it prove...other than unlike you I will honestly answer a direct question? Its no different than if I ask you if you stopped beating your wife. Say yes, and I assume you at one time beat her/say no, and I assume you still do. Load the question up enough and you can save face with several who dont really develop their own opinions...but isnt it more fun just to tell, then discuss, the truth? Yes...if some mythical beast appears, I will have to change my stance. How many teams have argued that their unicorn (Vince, The Golden Calf of Bristol, Pat White, Tarvaris Jackson, Vick) was THE unicorn? How many times does this have to be wrong before we learn from their mistakes?

How could I pass on him? His name is likely Jesus....it would be pretty obvious that he should be followed.

Fact is you (again) pose an impossible question.....you simply can't discuss from any basis of truth or fact. All I have seen from you is Self fulfilling prophecies "Cam was a top 10 pick, we must only compare him to other top 10 picks" to "What if the Almighty himself had a 1:1 ratio, would you draft him?".

Nothing that resembles any realism. You are still left with one fact...no running QB has ever won a title. History says this pick will again take us further away from our goal. I for one am not satisfied with wild hypotheticals or koolaid induced delusions of "Cam was taken #1 so we must ignore all history."

I prefer to win. I want my team to prefer it also.

Now, I have lost faith in you to admit things you know are true, so we will have to move on. Perhaps you will be willing to honestly discuss this:

Why, in your opinion, did all of the SB winning QBs have such a higher pass/run ratio than Cam/Vick? Why were these guys at around a 1.1:1, while nearly all of the SB winning QBs are above 5:1? What caused this statistical oddity (since you believe it is irrelevant)?

:lol: Sorry if you think that is a trick question. And I have answered every question you have asked me I believe. Maybe not the way you wanted me to but I have answered them. And what leads you to believe I haven't been honest.

And as far as your last question I will answer like I have all night. Why does it matter if it is irrelevant?? In 2008 there had never been a black President does that mean there is no way Barack Obama wins?? :lol:

As far as dealing in realism and fact. Are you saying it is a fact that Cam Newton is the same person as The Golden Calf of Bristol?? Same QB as The Golden Calf of Bristol?? Has same mechanics as The Golden Calf of Bristol?? Same skill set as The Golden Calf of Bristol??

I mean if you boil it down that is what you are saying. Your argument to this point (after it changing at least three separate times after massive fails :lol:) is "The Golden Calf of Bristol ran the ball almost equal to the times he ran the ball in college. Cam Newton ran the ball near equal number times a game. The Golden Calf of Bristol is struggling as an NFL QB. Therefore Cam Newton will struggle as an NFl QB" :rofl:

It is ridiculous on its face KJ. Can you only work in simple formulas? Does it even matter that he did throw the ball 20 times a game and had nearly 3,000 yards passing and 30 tds?? Or is this broad brush ONLY covered by this ratio??

I will finish up with this. If you think Cam is going to suck that is fine. But base it on something a little better than this. This is too weak. Say he has accuracy issues. That he has short hopped some throws in the preseason. Something like that.

Because saying a guy is going to fail bc he had too many designed runs called for him in college is really too simple minded to take seriously.

[teeray]

I also love how the Huggers are more wishy washy with their predictions than anyone. 2000-2500 yards? That's not a big range or anything...

@teeray...INT in the "low teens"...ninja please. You'd be happy with 55%? that's success for someone who was 66% in college and was even better against pressure? What happened to all those NFL throws? Do you mean to say his stats were hugely influenced by swings and screens? How many yards do you need?

He is a rookie dealing with no OTAs, no mini camp. and some accuracy issues. You are asking me what I expect this season not 4 years from now. I have a hard time finding QBs with lower than teen interceptions their first year. Manning had like 28 for fugs sake.

He is a rookie. He is going to struggle like every other rookie QB in history. I don't have unrealistic expectations. Just make some plays and give me some moments to hang my hat on for the future.

[CRA]

NFL running QBs have won titles.

the basis of his whole arguement is that since Newton was statistically unique then that means he will suck in the NFL. There simply are no QBs to compare him to w/ your focus on this ratio that one season at Auburn. There is no QB to compare him to.....yet you state as if all the others comparable failed.

[teeray]

NFL running QBs have won titles.

the basis of his whole arguement is that since Newton was statistically unique then that means he will suck in the NFL. There simply are no QBs to compare him to w/ your focus on this ratio that one season at Auburn. There is no QB to compare him to.....yet you state as if all the others comparable failed.

You are right there is no QB to compare him to. That is why I asked him to name the other QBs that had a 1:1 ratio and still threw for 3,000 yards and 30 tds and had the subsequent skill set to be taken as high as Cam was in the draft.

Then he got upset and has accused me of being intellectually dishonest and avoiding his original question, BUt the problem was his original question was find a guy statistically similar to Cam Newton that was successful. I said that it doesn't matter because every player is unique but then I did mention that Steve McNair had 1,000 yards rushing in college and was a great NFL QB.

So after that he changed his argument to this run/pass ratio in which there is no real precedent for a guy that has a 1:1 pass/run ratio and threw for 3,000 passing yards and 30 tds except The Golden Calf of Bristol who has serious mechanical flaws, is possibly less accurate, and has less arm strength. So they are clearly two different people.

But he has changed his position three times so I fear we are just wasting time on this argument.

[CRA]

You are right there is no QB to compare him to. That is why I asked him to name the other QBs that had a 1:1 ratio and still threw for 3,000 yards and 30 tds and had the subsequent skill set to be taken as high as Cam was in the draft.

Then he got upset and has accused me of being intellectually dishonest and avoiding his original question, BUt the problem was his original question was find a guy statistically similar to Cam Newton that was successful. I said that it doesn't matter because every player is unique but then I did mention that Steve McNair had 1,000 yards rushing in college and was a great NFL QB.

So after that he changed his argument to this run/pass ratio in which there is no real precedent for a guy that has a 1:1 pass/run ratio and threw for 3,000 passing yards and 30 tds except The Golden Calf of Bristol who has serious mechanical flaws, is possibly less accurate, and has less arm strength. So they are clearly two different people.

But he has changed his position three times so I fear we are just wasting time on this argument.

The Golden Calf of Bristol is the only one comparable.......and being drafted in 2010 make him irrelevant in the conversation. There aren't QBs that put in a season like Cam to go back and look at how they did at this level..........