What does Cam have to do

[KJDaniel31]

Question. How many QB's in college history had the stats and success Newton had?

Define "success" in college.....I'm unaware of anyone who only played one season of major college ball due to being kicked out of another school.

[antame]

I don't give a sh*t about college anything. What a waste of time.

Cam will be fine. He looks like an NFL QB on the field, and he'll improve.

[ncmonzta]

Define "success" in college.....I'm unaware of anyone who only played one season of major college ball due to being kicked out of another school.

Yea that's the type of success I'm talking about:rolleyes: Not the undefeated season or BCS Championship, Heisman Trophy, Maxwell Award, Walter Camp Award, Davey O'Brien Award, Manning Award, Associated Press College Football Player of the Year, and First-team All-American.

Passing Stats

AUB185com 280att 66.1 pct 2854yds 30td 7 ints

Blinn204com 336att 61pct 2833yds 22td 5ints

[KJDaniel31]

Not sure what you meant in your first paragraph. My point is if you had a guy that threw the ball 20 times a game for 3,000 yards and 30 tds I find it stupid to try to claim that he was strictly a running QB no matter what the pass/ratio is.

I realize that. My argument is that you will not be able to find a single player in recent NFL history which backs this up.

Then again I find it stupid to try to categorize football players into different little boxes to try to help me figure out if he will be a good football player. I prefer to judge each player on his own merits and abilities.

I don't have to categorize them all. There are some who's talents translate into the NFL, and some who don't. Weak arm run and gun QB's (like Brennan/Harrell) rarely pan out as well. Why would you want to ignore this?

You keep talking about his skills in history. So I guess I would ask you, "What QB that has similar pass/run ratio (since that is what you like) has been drafted in the top 10?? Because it appears that very few people with that kind of ratio had the type of skill set to allow them to be drafted that high so there may not even be a precedent.

Except that my argument is that smart NFL teams DONT draft these guys early. Many QB's have dominated college football, but smart NFL teams knew not to draft them #1. This question would only matter if I felt that Cam SHOULD have been drafted top 10, or if other NFL teams felt he should have been drafted top 10. I can't speak for the other teams, but I felt Cam was a solid 3rd round pick. For argument's sake, Michael Vick is the closest to Cam in run/pass ratio and draft slot. I can guarantee you that Atlanta wishes it had Ladanian Tomlinson AND Drew Brees rather than the 6-7 years of Michael Vick.

As far as Vince Young goes, that is a guy that has mental issues that got him booted. He went to two pro bowls and his win percentage was pretty damn good.

Vince was never voted to a Pro Bowl. He was a replacement twice; once when 1 guy dropped out, and once when 3 (three) guys dropped out. Is this really of note?

I agree, his win % was impressive. Given his terrible stats, mental problems, constant benching and the fact that his defense was ELITE, and had a top 3 RB for much of this time, do you really think he was a reason for success, or was holding that team back from further success?

[mav1234]

didn't the titans go like... 14-2 without VY?

edit: sorry was apparently 13-3.

[KJDaniel31]

Well.. as I have said over and over again. I think trying to put people into boxes and categorize them to simplify things for myself is foolish.

No I don't think Cam and Steve McNair are the same person. That would be stupid. Every player is it's own entity. Plus, I don't judge QBs soley on stats of any kind. Even passing stats. No matter how high his rushing stats are it really doesn't matter. I judge them on their skill set.

Great...so do I. My argument all along is that this stat is a BY PRODUCT of these abilities. Guys don't run with this regularity unless their abilities call for it.

I will give you one more chance .....can you find ANY player who ran with anything close to the regularity that Cam did in college who had playoff success?

Admitting no doesn't mean you give up on him. It just means you are honest! You can still believe that Cam will be the first....I simply do not share that opinion/faith.

[mav1234]

the only problem I have with that reasoning KJD is that it implies that Cam can't do any differently. There's a decent chance he can. I'll see how the season goes.

I also know he's going to run as a pro either way, but that doesn't mean he'll be running like he did in college.

[Marguide]

Define "success" in college.....I'm unaware of anyone who only played one season of major college ball due to being kicked out of another school.

Now we are getting down to it. And I knew we would end up here. You see, I remember a couple of days ago reading one of your posts in which you said something along the lines of "I want to puke every time I see Cam take the field". And I apologize that I do not have the exact quote.

This has nothing to do with Cam's running, or Locker's passing or NFL history. You do not like the individual you perceive Cam to be.

I could respect that, if you would just come out and say it, but not when you try to hide behind "facts and logic".

[teeray]

Teeray, after all the hype, all the claims, all the support for Cam, all the college stats you've cited since you joined, what would be a successful rookie campaign?

I ask you because I have a smidgen of respect for you...don't lowball it and ruin that

:lol: at the last sentence.

I said it earlier in this now massive thread. I said that if he keeps his INTs in the low teens, has double digit passing tds, about 5/6 rushing tds, and a completion percentage of @55% he will have done about what I expect.

He is a rookie. With no OTAs and no mini camps. A rookie that has some accuracy issues he has to work on.

Unlike some on here I just don't have an illusion of grandeur for this season. It is not always going to be pretty. My hope is he shows some potential and that he progresses as the season goes on.

No QB has ever come in and lit it up. The closest to that was Big Ben in recent history. I really like Cam but he will be no different IMO. He ois going to play like a rookie.

My main hope is that he gives me flashes of brilliance. That is one thing that Clausen never gave me. Every once in a while just show me something to get excited about for our future.

[mav1234]

Cam's averages in college:

20 Pass att/19 rush att

203 Pass YPG/105 Rush YPG

Locker's averages:

29 Pass Att/ 11 rush att

191 pass YPG/ 45 Rush YPG

Even counting Jake's freshman year, which severe skewed his stats, his % of pass to rush att (2.6 to 1) is no where near Cam's (1.05). Take away Locker's freshman year (where he ran for more than half his career total) and the stats are even more clear: Jake Locker threw the ball nearly 3 times for every time he ran, while Cam was just about 1 for 1.

what would you do if I told you that a certain player played 12 games and had only 9 carries a game compared to 28 passes? would that player be a "running quarterback"? No, right?

now what if that player is Cam Newton? Does he became a "running quarterback" because his next season he ran a ton more?

[IplayedCam#1317]

[SevenSixes]

I want Cam to throw 4 picks in a horrendous game against the Green Bay Packers..

then...

Drop 7 TD's on the Jags in a route..

then I'll consider him a success.

[IplayedCam#1317]

what would you do if I told you that a certain player played 12 games and had only 9 carries a game compared to 28 passes? would that player be a "running quarterback"? No, right?

now what if that player is Cam Newton? Does he became a "running quarterback" because his next season he ran a ton more?

[mav1234]

god f u kjd for making me look like a hugger.