Rewind back to April

[rayzor]

So when is it NOt to early?

would say 1/2-2/3 of the way through the season would be fair. by that point you will have gotten a chance to see him grow...or not.

i don't expect any rookie to turn all pro, but i do expect there to be some growth and a leveling out of the mistakes. i expect to see some mistakes, but because of a system/playcalling meant to protect him from it or at least limit it (like has been the case with the rookie QBs who have succeeded in recent years) i expect to see at the most solid play.

i don't believe that the first season is necessarily indicative of what his career is going to be like as players coming form college usually have to grow and develop regardless of where they were drafted. you can learn see/enough past the mid point of the season to know if you should be legitimately nervous or optimistic by what they are doing.

[GritsRgreat]

would say 1/2-2/3 of the way through the season would be fair. by that point you will have gotten a chance to see him grow...or not.

i don't expect any rookie to turn all pro, but i do expect there to be some growth and a leveling out of the mistakes. i expect to see some mistakes, but because of a system/playcalling meant to protect him from it or at least limit it (like has been the case with the rookie QBs who have succeeded in recent years) i expect to see at the most solid play.

i don't believe that the first season is necessarily indicative of what his career is going to be like as players coming form college usually have to grow and develop regardless of where they were drafted. you can learn see/enough past the mid point of the season to know if you should be legitimately nervous or optimistic by what they are doing.

OK i will chill on the Cam "hate" until then.

[Kurb]

So if cam gets 5 wins he is ok ?

No one really wants to take up Panthro's question because you cant answer it.

There is no way to know 100% if Cam is a super hero or a super zero.

What "we" are saying is this blind hate is getting really old. Support your QB, be fair, give him a chance, fuc.king hope for the best you scabs.

[ncbobcat]

wasn't ever a fan of the kolb idea. i see kolb and matt moore being on equal levels and that isn't meant as a compliment. the system had a lot to do with his success. i see him as a mediocre talent. thought the asking price for him was going to be way too high and it was. cards got raped. not just in what they had to give up in the trade, but that contract is waaaayyy too rich for him. imo, a much bigger gamble than it was for newton, esp. financially.

I think Kolb will do well in Arizona. His talent level I would have to disagree with you on, though. I think he's a good deal better than Moore. The only drawback was his price tag. We had PLENTY of cap space and didn't have to go rich on re-signing our guys as we did. I think the only guy really in jeopordy of walking was CJ. Even then as long as we matched the Falcons or slightly sweeterned the deal, he'd of stayed anyway.

Again, Dareus was my pick and it didn't happen. I still have grave concerns about our interior D-line.

[rayzor]

I wanted the draft to be heavy on defense (DT #1) and a couple of offensive guys.

this was the thinking that had me frustrated. we had by far the absolute worst offense in the league, but people wanted to focus on the defense in the draft, even though the defense was fairly respectable except for stopping the run.

i wanted us to be aggressive in the draft and go for the guy who could be the biggest game changer and could drive this offense into the future rather than some DT who i believe has a pretty low ceiling and is at best just a solid DT.

it's just a matter of how you think the team should be built. the emphasis is shifting so its a very offensive QB oriented league. do we spend all of our energy trying to stop it or do we try to move into the next century (so to speak) and try to keep up with it and stay competitive that way.

btw...kolb's WCO is much different than what the team has been calling a WCO. the system, philosophy, and verbiage is very different. that in itself wouldn't have made him a good fit.

[Kurb]

Kolb in Chudz of is a square peg in a round hole if I ever saw one.

[rayzor]

Again, Dareus was my pick and it didn't happen. I still have grave concerns about our interior D-line.

i'm pretty concerned about DT as well, but i more liked the idea of getting experienced talent in the middle as opposed to a rookie. you don't need much to make it better, but you need more than what we currently have. i think we could fix it fairly simply and early. hopefully, we'll find that guy in the first or second rounds of cuts. i felt good about ron edwards because he's just a good run stuffer which was the biggest need, but oh well...

the way it is just makes more work for the LBs, but it's better than last year and at least manageable. i still want someone brought in and i wish we had done more in FA with it. the space was there even with the re-signings for what we need.

[ncbobcat]

this was the thinking that had me frustrated. we had by far the absolute worst offense in the league, but people wanted to focus on the defense in the draft, even though the defense was fairly respectable except for stopping the run.

i wanted us to be aggressive in the draft and go for the guy who could be the biggest game changer and could drive this offense into the future rather than some DT who i believe has a pretty low ceiling and is at best just a solid DT.

it's just a matter of how you think the team should be built. the emphasis is shifting so its a very offensive QB oriented league. do we spend all of our energy trying to stop it or do we try to move into the next century (so to speak) and try to keep up with it and stay competitive that way.

btw...kolb's WCO is much different than what the team has been calling a WCO. the system, philosophy, and verbiage is very different. that in itself wouldn't have made him a good fit.

He's the deal, if we got a compliment to Smitty in the draft or FA and got a QB like Kolb, knowing now that another TE besides Shockey was in the works, would getting Dareus and a corner not named Hogan in the draft be the worst thing in the world? Our offense was horrible last year because of several things you and I both know about (Fox, injuries and rookie QB). Clean that slate and we would not have the worst offense in the league. Would it be top10? No, but not 32nd either. I guess it's like what you said, how one thinks the team should be built.

As for Kolb and the WCO... i'm not saying it's the same, but similar and from everything I've ever heard about WCOs, they are the hardest schemes to grasp. In other words, this offense for Kolb would not be as complicated and therefore easier to grasp. It would be a matter of execution and NOT scheme complexity to determine success for Kolb.

[ncbobcat]

Kolb in Chudz of is a square peg in a round hole if I ever saw one.

Please, do tell...

[mav1234]

woulda taken dareus, but I would have taken him if it was up to me back in April even before I knew how training camp would go.

also may not have taken hogan.

not exactly sure how I woulda spent our 3rds, it depends how the draft woulda changed with us passing on Cam. Coulda been quite a bit tbh.

Overall I am not disappointed in cam right now I just think that the team would have been better off solidifying our D.

[panthers55]

only change I would have made is bring in another corner for Hogan who wasn't hurt. Otherwise the draft was outstanding. Even then, if Hogan comes back next year and lights it up,I will take back what I said about drafting someone else in his stead.

Drafting Newton was a terrific move. Eveything he has done since being drafted only makes the pick better and better. It will go down as the best draft move we have made in the past 5 years.

[Andrew Luck]

I wish I could Rewind even earlier so I can enter the draft and come To Charlotte and be apart of a rebuilding team and a Team on the raise now it looks like I'm gonna have to spend my Career as a fuging Bengal. :mad:

[rayzor]

OK i will chill on the Cam "hate" until then.

keep in mind that is borderline early, but it's the standard i used for clausen so i at least had to be consistent.

i do think that even with that i might have been too harsh given the situation, but i don't think my assessment was far off either. he can be a solid QB in the league, but he'll never be great. not a really high ceiling there.

conventional wisdom is that you can't judge a draft class for 3 years. i don't think you need that long to tell if the guy is going to work out or not.

with jimmy i absolutely hated the pick. i yelled and screamed when it was called and was actually embarrassed. i had enjoyed watching him fall and was just wondering what dumb team was going to reach for him, so i can understand the feelings many have for newton. i did try to look for the positives in him and i made myself optimistic and gave him a chance. is that for everyone? i don't know. i don't care. that's just the mindset that i had.

as i said before, this was the first time in years the team was doing what i hoped it would and i feel like it's going to make this team more competitive in the long term than if we had gone another route.

[frash.exe]

ncbobcat Kolb sucks and Andy Reid couldn't even make him look great in an offense where he can make any QB look like a world beater. His deep ball capability is atrocious and like it or not you need a QB with a good deep ball to play the offense we're running. Kolb would suck here.