Shockey's camp comments on the U scandal

[Guest Spot On Dtan]

Nothing you're saying is addressing the points I've made. One set pf students has the ability o utilize their skills to their financial benefit while in school and another set does not. Period, end of story.

I'm not out on some woe is woe is me story for the athletes. Sure, many have no desire to actually get an education, they're there to play football and the school part is just a bother. No one disputes that. My argument is all about the financial opportunities available to them while in school compared to other students, no more, no less.

He'll, I thought the whole school part of college was a PITA too and I was there on academic scholarship. I wasn't there for enlightenment, I was there for a sheepskin that would get my foot in the door of the career of my choice. I enjoyed most of the classes within my major, but all the general ed stuff I had to slog through to get the degree... that poo sucked. Am I less of a person because I wasn't there for the enlightenment and the true value of the educational experience? Just like those athletes, attending college was a business decision for me. Most high profile recruits do it for exposure to try to get into the NFL and people like me needed it for a piece of paper that they completed what has simply become a rite of passage in today's society.

"Spot on," my good friend.

[LinvilleGorge]

Why are you even a fan of the sport?

You're still not addressing my point. Regular students on other scholarships can financially benefit off of the skills and abilities that got them their scholarships while they're currently in school while athletes cannot. True or false? My point goes no further than that.

[Nicbsbll2]

I'm talking about giving equal opportunities. For example, if you have a student on full academic scholarship majoring in computer programming and he can get a job with Microsoft through college utilizing his skills, that's fine. In fact, they'd probably do a write up in the school paper for the kid. However, a student on a football scholarship couldn't take a job with EA promoting NCAA Football 2012. Why not? What's the difference? According to you, that computer engineering student should turn down that job and continue to eat ramen. Both guys would just be utilizing their skills to make money in a legit job outside of school.

No student is going to get a job using their degree until their last semester of school, at earliest, much less with a company that can be highly selective in their hiring procedures like Microsoft. The best he can hope for is a summer internship, which probably won't be available until at least after his junior year of school.

Another example... a kid on a full academic scholarship is being recruited by a few different companies. Let's say hea an engineer and Ford and GM both want him. They're taking him out to dinner, flying him out to tour facilities, offering him bonuses, etc. Hell yeah, more power to him. Substitute engineering student for football player and Ford/GM for NFL agents and your have a huge scandal. Why? Where's the difference?

The equivalent of what you are saying here is a prospect visiting NFL teams or being wooed by agents after they have used their final year or eligibility or declared for the draft. If a company is going to recruit any student, it's not going to be until their final semester of school, which is the same time period athletes are having the same thing happen.

Yet another example... a student on a full academic scholarship is in a fraternity. A graduate is really impressed with this young man and how hard he's working. The young man comes from a poor background and doesn't have much money. The graduate wants to help him out and has the means, so he gives the kid $1000 to help him out. Nice story, huh? Substitute frat guy for football player and graduate for booster and you have a huge scandal. Again, why? What's the difference?

What fantasy realm do you live in that this happens?

[Sloth]

You can't even compare the two. Players are allowed to work certain times of the year and often get cushy jobs. They only get in trouble when the break the law.

Their stipends are more than plenty to cover rent, food, booze, hookers, cocaine, weed, whatever their heart desires but they feel they are entitled to more and that's where the problems come in.

Calling it a business decision for them to go to college is ludicrous. Who makes a business decision when the success of that decision is less than 5%. It just shows how stupid most of these people are. They don't deserve anything.

Are their any other career paths forced to pursue a degree unrelated to their vocation for 3-4 years before they're allowed to earn money?

And how is it not a business decision to go to college? They literally have no choice if they want to play football.

[Nicbsbll2]

Why are you even a fan of the sport?

You're still not addressing my point. Regular students on other scholarships can financially benefit off of the skills and abilities that got them their scholarships while they're currently in school while athletes cannot. True or false? My point goes no further than that.

If by "benefiting off of the skills and abilities that got them their scholarships" you mean a summer internship that might pay minimum wage, if they're lucky, then sure, they do have an advantage over the athletes that can't "benefit" from their athletic abilities.

Which by the way, those athletes have the same opportunities to land those internships as the rest of the student population.

[TheRealDeal]

You think it's safe for HS kids to join grown men in the NFL?

Maybe they should pursue a career with a greater chance of success.

I don't feel bad for you because you are marginally talented at a skill that requires elite performance. You don't want to pursue a dream you aren't going to achieve? Get better at other things.

[TheRealDeal]

If by "benefiting off of the skills and abilities that got them their scholarships" you mean a summer internship that might pay minimum wage, if they're lucky, then sure, they do have an advantage over the athletes that can't "benefit" from their athletic abilities.

Which by the way, those athletes have the same opportunities to land those internships as the rest of the student population.

He doesn't want to know the truth, don't bother.

[Davidson Deac II]

The question I want to know is, why does it seem as if the minorities are the ones being targeted by the NCAA. Please don't tell me rich kids don't take money from agents. Please don't tell me their parents, who can afford to send them to the best schools, don't take the scholarship money and use it on a kid who isn't going to go any further than the minor leagues.

Unfurtunately, the NCAA seems to be a refelction of our society.

It doesn't seem that way to most people, especially since its not the students being targeted and punished but the institutions. I don't think Beason is going to jail over this.

But, do you have proof that minorities are being targeted at a rate that is higher than their participation in college football and basketball at the major college level?

[LinvilleGorge]

You two are a piece of work. That's all.

If you can't see the difference in opportunities that are allowed to be available to the two different subsets, it's because you choose not to do so.

[rico6]

Another Lockout level thread. This forum never fails to disappoint me.

[Davidson Deac II]

You two are a piece of work. That's all.

If you can't see the difference in opportunities that are allowed to be available to the two different subsets, it's because you choose not to do so.

Or its because you are wrong, and are just unable to see it or admit it.

[LinvilleGorge]

There's nothing wrong with the points I've made. Go ask anyone involved with NCAA compliance. The arguments made on this thread show a clear ignorance of compliance issues and honestly sum up in a nutshell why I've largely abandoned this forum. Gotta wade through too much bullshit to have a decent discussion.

[Davidson Deac II]

There's nothing wrong with the points I've made. Go ask anyone involved with NCAA compliance. The arguments made on this thread show a clear ignorance of compliance issues and honestly sum up in a nutshell why I've largely abandoned this forum. Gotta wade through too much bullpoo to have a decent discussion.

No one forced you to post here or to open this thread. There are plenty of Newton vs Clausen threads for you to peruse. And why should I have to go ask someone in NCAA compliance? If its common knowledge, then it should be easily available information.

Here's the thing. There is nothing wrong with your points, as long as you realize they are your opinion. You said that minorities are targeted at a higher rate than whites. Thats an opinion. You haven't backed it up with actual stats. That makes it your opinion, not a fact. If you can show me something reliable that proves that minorities are the target of these investigations at rate that exceeds their participation in college football and basketball, then I will admit you are correct. Otherwise, yours is an opinion, no more or less valid than any other opinion here.

[LinvilleGorge]

The point isn't what is done and not done, but what is ALLOWABLE. Can this distinction not be made.

Forget it guys, I'm done. Keep believing that all is fine with the system l, but realize that is contrary even to the opinion of the President of the NCAA who said the system wasn't working in an interview on ESPN just yesterday.