Folks, we have to discuss this. (we really do)

[Guest Spot On Dtan]

typo, left out a few key words.. was saying he will be required to step up more like a Rodgers than a Flacco..

Rodgers owns that offense.. Flacco isn't there yet, neither is Matt Ryan, which was my point..

"Spot on"

Flacco and Matty will go down as the most overrated QBs of their era...

[chef17]

Look here.

He was actually traded, but that still proves my point.

If he's the type of TE guys think he is, he wouldn't have been traded at all.

And his contract?

Top TEs make 6-8m/yr.

You gave him 7 over 5.

Stop acting like he's Vernon Davis.

The Bears used him as a blocking TE. He is more of a receiving TE, hence why he was traded.

[bleys]

Let's flip that coin and pass it back.

What tangible evidence do you have that you will improve?

None.

I have a much better case on my side.

I can bring up past performance,

It's not much, but it's more than you've got.

You can bring up wishful thinking.

You may say "Oh the new system this..."

Or "Oh Cam Newton that..."

But until the ball is snapped on week one...

Spot on Dtan 1, Pantherclaw 0.

I already pointed out why you all are going downhill in the next 3 years, unless you want to point to wishful thinking on nabbing another Turner, TE, Edwards single-handedly taking your pass defense from 22nd to somewhere around Top 10 to hang with Rodgers, and Matty Ice stepping up as an average QB instead of "eh"..

you can't point to past performance in the Panthers case, because this is a new system, new coaches, even new players at key positions.. we have young players who stepped up for the 1st time last year, so past performance is a completely useless angle to take..

although if you insist, our defense was on the field more than anyone last year and still middle of the pack. with no DTs and a vanilla defense.. We brought in Rivera, who has placed a #1 and #2 Top defense on 2 different teams.. so there is a lot to look forward to in the future on the defensive side of the ball.

our offense has 2 1,000 yard backs, a Top 5 TE, an OLine with players coming back healthy. Our main question mark is QB.. if he plays well, our team will improve on the offensive side of the ball.. A perfect scenario for a rookie QB..

so in 3 years, we'll see which side of the coin both teams fall...

[Guest Spot On Dtan]

I already pointed out why you all are going downhill in the next 3 years, unless you want to point to wishful thinking on nabbing another Turner, TE, Edwards single-handedly taking your pass defense from 22nd to somewhere around Top 10 to hang with Rodgers, and Matty Ice stepping up as an average QB instead of "eh"..

you can't point to past performance in the Panthers case, because this is a new system, new coaches, even new players at key positions.. we have young players who stepped up for the 1st time last year, so past performance is a completely useless angle to take..

although if you insist, our defense was on the field more than anyone last year and still middle of the pack. with no DTs and a vanilla defense.. We brought in Rivera, who has placed a #1 and #2 Top defense on 2 different teams.. so there is a lot to look forward to in the future on the defensive side of the ball.

our offense has 2 1,000 yard backs, a Top 5 TE, an OLine with players coming back healthy. Our main question mark is QB.. if he plays well, our team will improve on the offensive side of the ball.. A perfect scenario for a rookie QB..

so in 3 years, we'll see which side of the coin both teams fall...

Not even gonna bother arguing back.

It would be more of the same thing.

I say one thing, you say one thing, I say the same thing, you say the same thing....etc

I think the panthers are overpaid,

You think the falcons are too old in key positions.

And we both disagree with each other.

I like the three years idea.

For all we know, the panthers are headed to the toilet

And the Falcons are gonna reel off 5 straight super bowls.

Or vice versa.

But until then, we're just a couple of guys giving their opinions.

[MaineManPanther]

Not once did I say those guys are bad players.

Just that you overpaid.

By a lot.

And I mean by a ton.

Take your medicine...

And by the same token, stop acting like Edwards is garbage if you want to use PFF.

I've made no posts that talk about Edwards.

How did we overpay Davis? We actually lowered the cap hit this year for him. If he gets hurt,or doesnt play up to his standard, then he will be let go with no cosequnces for us.

You never said he was bad, but you stated he had mere okay season, which PFF contradicts. If Anderson continues to play as a top three to five OLB, why would he be overpaid?

Same with Johnson, if he plays like a elite top 3 DE why would he be overpaid?

[CarolinaCatBrigade]

How can you say that we won't improve based on past performances? You are basically using the same "formula" to calculate a teams success with a different coaching staff. This is a new "math equation" in a sense. New coaches all round, youth have more experience, and we have a young QB with a lot of potential. Improvement is inevitable.

So

your

argument

is

worthless

[Guest Spot On Dtan]

I've made no posts that talk about Edwards.

How did we overpay Davis? We actually lowered the cap hit this year for him. If he gets hurt,or doesnt play up to his standard, then he will be let go with no cosequnces for us.

You never said he was bad, but you stated he had mere okay season, which PFF contradicts. If Anderson continues to play as a top three to five OLB, why would he be overpaid?

Same with Johnson, if he plays like a elite top 3 DE why would he be overpaid?

Mull that over.

[Guest Spot On Dtan]

How can you say that we won't improve based on past performances? You are basically using the same "formula" to calculate a teams success with a different coaching staff. This is a new "math equation" in a sense. New coaches all round, youth have more experience, and we have a young QB with a lot of potential. Improvement is inevitable.

So

your

argument

is

worthless

Nope.

You are assuming that youth=improvement.

I could just as easily say that all the new players will stink due to their lack of experience.

You are assuming that the coaching staff is an upgrade.

I could just as easily say that the new system is worse.

You are assuming that your QB will play as we think he will.

I could just as easily say "JaMarcus Russell"

You are assuming that after 2-14, "improvement is inevitable."

I could just as easily say "0-16."

No,

It is your argument that is worthless.

Based entirely on what you hope will be true.

Rather than based on what has happened.

[Guest Spot On Dtan]

What an awesome thread!

You're lucky to have me folks.

Real lucky.

"Falconslife's" loss is "The Huddle's" gain.

[CarolinaCatBrigade]

Nope.

You are assuming that youth=improvement.

I could just as easily say that all the new players will stink due to their lack of experience.

You are assuming that the coaching staff is an upgrade.

I could just as easily say that the new system is worse.

You are assuming that your QB will play as we think he will.

I could just as easily say "JaMarcus Russell"

You are assuming that after 2-14, "improvement is inevitable."

I could just as easily say "0-16."

No,

It is your argument that is worthless.

Based entirely on what you hope will be true.

Rather than based on what has happened.

I am not saying that youth means improvement, I'm saying that the experience they have obtained from years past has opened up the path for them to improve, with experience comes opportunity for improvement.

To compare Newton to Russell already shows your uneducated. The only comparison there is between Newton and Russell is their skin color, and if you are to continue with that argument, then racism will blind your judgment on this young mans football ability, and you will continue to dwell on his ethnicity.

As for the coaching change, the improvement has already begun, the Panthers did not score one single touchdown last year in Pre-Season (although it is just that, Pre-Season), with just the first game, we have scored two. Holding the Giant's 1st string offense to just 3 points against our 2nd and 3rd team defense. And for the sake of history, a team has NEVER had back to back 1st overall picks in the NFL, EVER. So, unless the insane improbability that we do go 0-16 happens, then I will laugh at your belief or at least your argument of probability.

Improvement will happen, and as a falcons fan that regularly watches ATL face off against CAR twice a season, you should, or at least be somewhat educated on the pathetic predictability that the Panthers had with John Fox, with his system, I and everyone else could see what was up his sleeve. You are right that our new Head Coach is inexperienced at his position, but the potential our new staff has to improve this team, is like I said earlier, inevitable.

You can troll and spend all day posting on this site, if that is what feeds you satisfaction. We were a 2-14 team, the sleight is clean, and the term "any given sunday" applies to everyone. Gear up, and get ready to watch CAR shock people this season, and prepare for a new young QB to improve this season, and lead us to the playoffs the next.

[Gipetto]

stop bumping your fuging thread for attention. No one likes you and no one wants you here. All of your opinions are irrelevant and biased. People please stop giving this troll attention he was banned from nearly ever other football forum for a reason.

[MaineManPanther]

Mull that over.

He's 25, played at a high level every other year and had his elite year with no help. This year has more surrounding help and is in a more aggressive defense. If thats a risk, then it's one worth taking.

There is no reason to believe he'll have a drop off this year. Unless you have one?

How was Davis contract a problem?

[Guest Spot On Dtan]

I am not saying that youth means improvement, I'm saying that the experience they have obtained from years past has opened up the path for them to improve, with experience comes opportunity for improvement.

To compare Newton to Russell already shows your uneducated. The only comparison there is between Newton and Russell is their skin color, and if you are to continue with that argument, then racism will blind your judgment on this young mans football ability, and you will continue to dwell on his ethnicity.

As for the coaching change, the improvement has already begun, the Panthers did not score one single touchdown last year in Pre-Season (although it is just that, Pre-Season), with just the first game, we have scored two. Holding the Giant's 1st string offense to just 3 points against our 2nd and 3rd team defense. And for the sake of history, a team has NEVER had back to back 1st overall picks in the NFL, EVER. So, unless the insane improbability that we do go 0-16 happens, then I will laugh at your belief or at least your argument of probability.

Improvement will happen, and as a falcons fan that regularly watches ATL face off against CAR twice a season, you should, or at least be somewhat educated on the pathetic predictability that the Panthers had with John Fox, with his system, I and everyone else could see what was up his sleeve. You are right that our new Head Coach is inexperienced at his position, but the potential our new staff has to improve this team, is like I said earlier, inevitable.

You can troll and spend all day posting on this site, if that is what feeds you satisfaction. We were a 2-14 team, the sleight is clean, and the term "any given sunday" applies to everyone. Gear up, and get ready to watch CAR shock people this season, and prepare for a new young QB to improve this season, and lead us to the playoffs the next.

1. Then you are assuming that the experience will help. I can say the opposite.

2. MV7 is my favorite player and I think Cam will be a stud. So I don't think the "racism" argument holds any water. I used "JaMarcus" to prove a point; that you are just assuming he will be good. I can assume the opposite.

3. Preseason is irrelevant. 08' Lions went 4-0. 07' Patriots went 0-4. I really don't care.

4. Stop blaming Fox for everything. He is not nearly as conservative as the Falcons O coordinator. And we went 13-3.

5. "Slate" is not spelled "sleight."

My point is, you can't assume anything and present it as a fact.

That might cut it here,

but objective football fans will destroy you.

[panthers55]

Let's flip that coin and pass it back.

What tangible evidence do you have that you will improve?

None.

I have a much better case on my side.

I can bring up past performance,

It's not much, but it's more than you've got.

You can bring up wishful thinking.

You may say "Oh the new system this..."

Or "Oh Cam Newton that..."

But until the ball is snapped on week one...

Spot on Dtan 1, Pantherclaw 0.

"Get out damn spot" (excerpt from Lady Macbeth, classic Shakespeare).

What evidence do we have?? Once again lets look at the numbers.

Carolina:

Our issue was offense not defense. Remember where you guys gave up 5.6 yards a play? Yeah we gave up 5.1 a play. Where you allowed 39% of third downs to be completed, we allowed 38%. We did allow 25 points a game while you allowed 18 but we also were on the field an average of 5 more minutes a game. Our sacks were even and our pass defense was a little more porous at 11 yards a completion versus the Falcons 10.6.

What did we do to improve? We signed 2 third round DTs who will shore up the middle, signed Johnson who had 13 sacks in a poor scheme, will have Davis back who was on IR all last year, will have Gamble who missed 6 games last year and have a number of young players who are a year further in their development. Best of all we brought in Rivera who engineered the number 1 defense in the NFl last year. (and if you think coaching doesn't matter, don't response or you will be ridiculed).

Our problem was offense and a poor scheme and poor quarterback play. With Otah back the line is instantly better. With Olsen and Shockey we have instant offense. Add that Smith who was disgruntled and didn't play evry game last year but is excited about this offense. With a Air Coryell vertical passing attack it will clear the box and help the running game as well as open up routes for the TEs against linebackers and safeties. Chud was TE coach for San Diego which had the number 1 offense last year. And if you think scheme and coaching don't matter, appear intelligent and keep it to yourself.

Finally, it this a guarantee of success?? There are no guarantees in football but if we are only 7 points better on offense and no better on defense we will win at least 6 or 7 games this year. That is very likely, including winning our game with the Falcons at home.