Mallett/Gabbert/Cam/Ponder/Locker

[TheRealDeal]

So, in the here and now should we just slit our wrists or wait until your shift at the Waffle House is over and you finish your manifesto, send it in to JR and take over the franchise and pick us a real QB

Again, I'm not forcing you to read them and I'm not trying to convince you to believe them.

I clearly stated they are my personal opinions and I don't expect you to think they are right or agree.

You can try and insult me and make me something I'm not, but it doesn't work.

[teeray]

We have a young roster, but not all the young players are that talented. Beason, Gross, Smith, Anderson, Gamble, Otah, D Will, etc are all older and or have injuries that could limit their PT and production in the future.

I'm not ready to say LaFell and Armanti will easily replace those guys.

Flacco is clearly average.

Ryan is good.

Big Ben is good.

I've talked about how I evaluate QBs a lot on here, made threads where I rated every QB in the league into Elite/Good/Game Manager/Bad categories.

Reality is most are just game managers.

How much do you take intangibles into account?? Big Ben is always a polarizing guy in these type discussions because you could easily make and argument that he is average, or good, or even elite if you go by the SB + QB = elite QB formula.

But no matter what you say about him he seems to make big plays in big moments.

In other words how do you view a guy that always seems to rise to the occasion like Big Ben (even if he did have his 22 in his first SB) and a guy like Peyton Manning (who I think is the best QB in the NFL even over Brady) who seems to always fall a little short??

[TheRealDeal]

So, in the here and now should we just slit our wrists or wait until your shift at the Waffle House is over and you finish your manifesto, send it in to JR and take over the franchise and pick us a real QB

How much do you take intangibles into account?? Big Ben is always a polarizing guy in these type discussions because you could easily make and argument that he is average, or good, or even elite if you go by the SB + QB = elite QB formula.

But no matter what you say about him he seems to make big plays in big moments.

In other words how do you view a guy that always seems to rise to the occasion like Big Ben (even if he did have his 22 in his first SB) and a guy like Peyton Manning (who I think is the best QB in the NFL even over Brady) who seems to always fall a little short??

Ben also had a near single digit performance in the AFC championship on their second run as well.

I don't have a formula to rate QBs. If I did and it was good I'd be fuging two models on my private island somewhere, reading the Huddle, buying the huddle from Zod and banning anyone who ever once disagreed with me, then buy the Panthers and put a picture of myself at mid field, among other things, but I digress.

One simple rule that I like to start with is what does the QB do for their team that puts them above another QB if they came into said team. How good do I think, in my own opinion that I'm not forcing you to believe, you will be with equal talent around you? How do you play with a great defense? Bad defense? Great running game? Bad running game? Elite weapons? Coaching? Rivals? Do you make the easy throws? Do you make the difficult throws? Precision passing? Gunslinger? 1st down? Do you dominate weaker opponents and struggle against good ones, boosting your numbers?

I take everything into account. I weight some things more than others. I don't know.

Also, just because you are a game manager doesn't mean you are just as good as another game manager.

I had Eli as a game manager. One of the main reasons is that he relies heavily on his running game to be successful. I DIDN'T rate Matt Moore, but of course someone asked if I would rate him and I put him in the Game Manager role as well, as I think with a solid running game he is good but without one he struggles, like most QBs. Doesn't mean I think he's better than Eli or Flacco.

I think there are maybe 5 ELITE QBs in the league, a few more good ones, the majority are just game managers and a few poor QBs.

***But please, don't take this as the gospel, this is my opinion and one that I don't expect anyone else to share. I'm sure many of you will disagree and I look forward to you sharing your opinions, if you wish. I'm also not trying to force you to agree with my opinion or force you to post your own.

Go Panthers.

[mav1234]

generally for me to think a quarterback is truly elite I like to see them able to run an offense no matter how the rest of the team is doing, including other aspects of the offense but also the other aspects of the game. a lot of people don't realize how much easier on an offense it is if you have a good defense and/or special teams, and not just in terms of not needing to score as many points, but also things like field position, turnovers, etc. that's why sometimes pure ranking orders aren't really sufficient to describe the impact a unit has on the team (just thinking back to someone saying the Saints & Colts defenses were terrible during their Super Bowl runs...)

[TheRealDeal]

generally for me to think a quarterback is truly elite I like to see them able to run an offense no matter how the rest of the team is doing, including other aspects of the offense but also the other aspects of the game. a lot of people don't realize how much easier on an offense it is if you have a good defense and/or special teams, and not just in terms of not needing to score as many points, but also things like field position, turnovers, etc. that's why sometimes pure ranking orders aren't really sufficient to describe the impact a unit has on the team (just thinking back to someone saying the Saints & Colts defenses were terrible during their Super Bowl runs...)

Funny that if you watch the Pitt/Balt playoff game from a year ago, I believe only one scoring drive was longer than 40 or 50 yards, ONE!

I like to think you can build an offense around an elite QB, not plug a QB into your offense. Manning, Brady, Rodgers, those guys can sling it no matter what all day. Those are the elite guys. Rivers is a stud.

There is just so much you have to consider.

[ncmonzta]

Funny that if you watch the Pitt/Balt playoff game from a year ago, I believe only one scoring drive was longer than 40 or 50 yards, ONE!

I like to think you can build an offense around an elite QB, not plug a QB into your offense. Manning, Brady, Rodgers, those guys can sling it no matter what all day. Those are the elite guys. Rivers is a stud.

There is just so much you have to consider.

Consider that you're not a expert and like talk out of your ass 99% of the time:seeya:

[TheRealDeal]

Football discussion aborted.

Good talk Teeray and Mav. I look forward to it in the future.

[Ted Stryker]

I see it like this really, Cam is here like it or not we're not gonna undraft him, so why all the comparisons? Why all the doom and gloom? Yeah he's a project but he's gonna be the guy. Look at Delhomme, god awful in nearly evey way, but prior to the elbow injury he just found a way to win. I enjoyed him pulling it out of his ass and seeing a guy like rivers look like he just got r*ped. Theres guys that are just gamers, that's what I see Cam to be. If you're looking for a fantasy guy, forget it. It's gonna look ugly at times. Fantasy football has ruined alot of fans.

Bottom line: if you love this team you know, we're underdogs, so is Cam. No respect, no love all the media want him to fail, they want us to fail. Cam is the Panthers, ask yourself, are you in? He looks like he's in. You should want him to prove them wrong. Not saying be blind but he should be our guy til he proves he's not.

[TruCatzFan]

Again in FL and in need of a "radio station so that I can listen to the game.

Pms get swag

[teeray]

I know what you mean TRD. I actually think Peyton Manning is a better QB than Tom Brady even though Tom Brady has 3 titles to Peyton's one.

Not taking anything away from Brady because it is like comparing a Lamborghini with a Porsche. One may actually be better but they are both pretty awesome.

But I feel if Peyton had some of the defenses New England had (especially the year they beat us) and (with all do respect to Dungy who I respect a bunch) the coaching that the Patriots had Peyton would have @3 rings as well.

So championships can't be the only criteria.

[Ted Stryker]

I know what you mean TRD. I actually think Peyton Manning is a better QB than Tom Brady even though Tom Brady has 3 titles to Peyton's one.

Not taking anything away from Brady because it is like comparing a Lamborghini with a Porsche. One may actually be better but they are both pretty awesome.

But I feel if Peyton had some of the defenses New England had (especially the year they beat us) and (with all do respect to Dungy who I respect a bunch) the coaching that the Patriots had Peyton would have @3 rings as well.

So championships can't be the only criteria.

Depends on how you define better, Brady was clutch in more situations than manning IMO - for that matter if you define clutch as a top criteria then Montana would be the greatest of all time, though his career stats pale in comparison to Manning.

[TheRealDeal]

QB is the most interesting position in football to discuss because there are so many things to consider when judging their talent, contribution to a team, and so on.

I also think Manning is in a class of his own with Brady a close second the Rodgers as the guy who is going to take over the throne shortly. After that it gets pretty muddled.

It's similar to how you can't judge steve smith based on some of the QBs he's played with and his numbers alone, you have to judge him on how he contributes to an offense and the coverages he faces and the things you see on tape, then use your judgment on how that compares to receivers with more favorable situations.

[teeray]

Depends on how you define better, Brady was clutch in more situations than manning IMO - for that matter if you define clutch as a top criteria then Montana would be the greatest of all time, though his career stats pale in comparison to Manning.

Montana is still my #1 on the all time list.

[Ted Stryker]

Then there's Kenny Stabler, scrappy goofy kinda QB but every classic Raider play with a name( holy roller, sea of hands, ghost to the post, etc.) he was the QB