Newton's personality reminds me of.............

[Mr. Scot]

well, if McNabb getting a Superbowl ring in that game despite playing the same doesn't bump him up....

...then I still question the rational of how Manning is great.

Manning has not stepped up in big games....he has done the opposite. Manning didn't play well in the entire postseason run his team won the Superbowl. It ain't like he played great and then for one game relied on his team.....

Look at Manning's AFCCG performances and Superbowl performances.....and tell me how based on your critieria he is great. You just said as far as a Superbowl win goes you need to play great for it to hold weight.

I disagree that Manning played badly that postseason, but that's a matter of opinion (which is what all of this is, anyway).

I didn't agree with him being elected the MVP of the game, but I did think his play justified bringing him over.

Can you point me to a championship performance by McNabb that you'd be willing to describe as "great"?

[theyhateme45]

Kelly performed quite well on the big stage. Scott Norwood, not so much. Ditto Thurman Thomas who fumbled away one of their games. There was one Super Bowl where I remember Kelly looking bad (the one in which he was eventually injured and replaced by Frank Reich, who failed to provide the same kind of comeback magic he had against the Oilers).

Marino has a far more limited postseason body of work. He played well in his lone Super Bowl appearance, but Montana outshined him big time.

Answer me this: How good is Roethlisberger really?

Kelly performed well when on the big stage???

Ummm Thurman Thomas actually carried them in that superbowl and Jeff Hostetler played the same if not out performed him... That is not all on norwood.... Great performance??? I think not. He didn't even have a TD pass if I remember correctly.

The superbowl against Washington I know very well (My cousin played for washington)... and Kelly's perfromance was one of the worst all time!

In another superbowl he threw 2 picks then got injured...

The other superbowl with Dallas with the fumble he had no TD's and didn't raise to the occassion.

SO ONCE AGAIN!!!! Where are these performances where Kelly performed so much better than Mcnabb on the big stage!!

[theyhateme45]

Answer me this: How good is Roethlisberger really?

And your're the one saying Mcnabb isn;t great becasue he does not have a ring... I never said that was my standards as I know a lot has to go right to win a superbowl, and it's not always the best QB's that win.

That said... I give Big Ben his credit, I think overall he is very good, but he's not great, or close to hall of fame level IMO. The thing is I think there are other QB's who could have won with those Steeler teams.... Where as I don't think too many QB's would have won or made it to that many title games with the talent on those Philly teams.

[CRA]

I disagree that Manning played badly that postseason, but that's a matter of opinion (which is what all of this is, anyway).

I didn't agree with him being elected the MVP of the game, but I did think his play justified bringing him over.

Can you point me to a championship performance by McNabb that you'd be willing to describe as "great"?

No I can't...he hasn't been great in a championship game.

Neither has Manning.

Overall, you can say in Championship games (conference and SB) Manning has been just as bad as McNabb in terms if individual performance.

Look at Manning's 3 AFC Championship appearances......dreadful.

Point is you say Manning gets the bump b/c of X....but if X occured w/ McNabb under the same context he doesn't get the bump.

[Mr. Scot]

Kelly performed well when on the big stage???

Ummm Thurman Thomas actually carried them in that superbowl and Jeff Hostetler played the same if not out performed him... That is not all on norwood.... Great performance??? I think not. He didn't even have a TD pass if I remember correctly.

The superbowl against Washington I know very well (My cousin played for washington)... and Kelly's perfromance was one of the worst all time!

In another superbowl he threw 2 picks then got injured...

The other superbowl with Dallas with the fumble he had no TD's and didn't raise to the occassion.

SO ONCE AGAIN!!!! Where are these performances where Kelly performed so much better than Mcnabb on the big stage!!

Kelly's first Super Bowl was his best. I'll grant the ones against Dallas especially weren't so good, though I thought they'd have had a much better chance in one had Thomas not fumbled it away and opened the floodgates.

I'll ask you the same question I asked CRA. What championship performance of McNabb's can you point to and call "great"?

[Mr. Scot]

And your're the one saying Mcnabb isn;t great becasue he does not have a ring... I never said that was my standards as I know a lot has to go right to win a superbowl, and it's not always the best QB's that win.

That said... I give Big Ben his credit, I think overall he is very good, but he's not great, or close to hall of fame level IMO. The thing is I think there are other QB's who could have won with those Steeler teams.... Where as I don't think too many QB's would have won or made it to that many title games with the talent on those Philly teams.

No, I'm not. That's the point you keep missing.

I'm saying McNabb isn't great because he hasn't performed well in championship games. Great quarterbacks step up to the big challenges. McNabb hasn't.

That's also why I don't call Roethlisberger great even though he has two rings.

[Mr. Scot]

No I can't...he hasn't been great in a championship game.

Neither has Manning.

Overall, you can say in Championship games (conference and SB) Manning has been just as bad as McNabb in terms if individual performance.

Look at Manning's 3 AFC Championship appearances......dreadful.

Point is you say Manning gets the bump b/c of X....but if X occured w/ McNabb under the same context he doesn't get the bump.

Wrong. I say if McNabb had performed well in championship games, I'd bump him up to great. But he hasn't, and at this point I doubt he will.

On whether or not Manning has been great in the postseason, we'll have to agree to disagree there.

Now if you want to talk about Eli not being great, even with a ring, then I'm with ya.

[CRA]

I'll ask you the same question I asked CRA. What championship performance of McNabb's can you point to and call "great"?

None. Just like Peyton.

[theyhateme45]

Kelly's first Super Bowl was his best. I'll grant the ones against Dallas especially weren't so good, though I thought they'd have had a much better chance in one had Thomas not fumbled it away and opened the floodgates.

I'll ask you the same question I asked CRA. What championship performance of McNabb's can you point to and call "great"?

Once again... I NEVER SAID a QB has to have a great perfomance in the superbowl to be given credit... that was you. Like I said before, Unlike the NBA, I belive in the NFL one and done system the players QB's teams don't always win.

I felt Manning was a great QB before he won a superbowl... I did not feel he needed a ring to validate it. When Manning won, he had a defense that stepped up... If not for his D, he still would not have a ring... some for Tony D... But I would not have looked at them any less.

All I am saying is you are being hypocritcal if that is your requirement, yet you consider Kelly and Marino great.... Cause facts are, on the biggest stage they played just as well as Mcnabb.

[Mr ocho nueve]

I must have got lost. Thought this was about Cam.

[Mr. Scot]

Once again... I NEVER SAID a QB has to have a great perfomance in the superbowl to be given credit... that was you. Like I said before, Unlike the NBA, I belive in the NFL one and done system the players QB's teams don't always win.

I felt Manning was a great QB before he won a superbowl... I did not feel he needed a ring to validate it. When Manning won, he had a defense that stepped up... If not for his D, he still would not have a ring... some for Tony D... But I would not have looked at them any less.

All I am saying is you are being hypocritcal if that is your requirement, yet you consider Kelly and Marino great.... Cause facts are, on the biggest stage they played just as well as Mcnabb.

I did. This is where we disagree.

We also disagree on our evaluation of Marino and Kelly, but you don't see me throwing out a personal attack because of it.

You do realize we're just talking about opinions of football players, right? This isn't life or death stuff.

None. Just like Peyton.

Likewise, we disagree (which is fine).

[CRA]

Wrong. I say if McNabb had performed well in championship games, I'd bump him up to great. But he hasn't, and at this point I doubt he will.

On whether or not Manning has been great in the postseason, we'll have to agree to disagree there.

Now if you want to talk about Eli not being great, even with a ring, then I'm with ya.

Okay....Manning has been knocked out 7 times first game of the postseason.

Here are his Championship games....tell me which one was great.

2003 AFC Championship - Lost 24-14

Manning -1 TD, 4 INT, QB rating 35.5

2004 AFC Championship - Lost 20-3

Manning - 0 TD, 1 INT, QB rating 69.3

Now the Superbowl playoff run....

Entire postseason 3 TDs, 7 INTs, postseason QB rating approx 67

Manning's one and only "great Championship game"

2009 AFC Championship.....3 TD, 0 INT, 123 QB rating

then

he went on to have a typical unimpressive postseason performance losing the Superbowl.

So how do you say Peyton has been great in the postseason.......what games (plural) are you refering to?

[theyhateme45]

Wrong. I say if McNabb had performed well in championship games, I'd bump him up to great. But he hasn't, and at this point I doubt he will.

On whether or not Manning has been great in the postseason, we'll have to agree to disagree there.

Now if you want to talk about Eli not being great, even with a ring, then I'm with ya.

Performed Wel... Hmm...Okay... so this is Manning, someone you said played well in a championship game....

Okay....Manning has been knocked out 7 times first game of the postseason.

Here are his Championship games....tell me which one was great.

2003 AFC Championship - Lost 24-14

Manning -1 TD, 4 INT, QB rating 35.5

2004 AFC Championship - Lost 20-3

Manning - 0 TD, 1 INT, QB rating 69.3

Now the Superbowl playoff run....

Entire postseason 3 TDs, 7 INTs, postseason QB rating approx 67

Manning's one and only "great Championship game"

2009 AFC Championship.....3 TD, 0 INT, 123 QB rating

then

he went on to have a typical unimpressive postseason performance losing the Superbowl.

So how do you say Peyton has been great in the postseason.......what games are you refering to? Biggest games....Peyton has overall choked EXACTLY like McNabb with the exception of 1 AFC Championship

Now I give you Mcnabb last 2 NFC Championship games, which I feel he played well in both... lost the last one cause the defense could not tackle.

Mcnabb 28/47, 375 YDS, 3 TD, 1 INT in 32-25 lost to Arizona in 08

Mcnabb 17-of-26 for 180 yards and 2 TDs in 27-10 win over Atlanta... keeping in mind that was in horrible out door conditions.

Don't see much difference.

[Mr. Scot]

Okay....Manning has been knocked out 7 times first game of the postseason.

Here are his Championship games....tell me which one was great.

2003 AFC Championship - Lost 24-14

Manning -1 TD, 4 INT, QB rating 35.5

2004 AFC Championship - Lost 20-3

Manning - 0 TD, 1 INT, QB rating 69.3

Now the Superbowl playoff run....

Entire postseason 3 TDs, 7 INTs, postseason QB rating approx 67

Manning's one and only "great Championship game"

2009 AFC Championship.....3 TD, 0 INT, 123 QB rating

then

he went on to have a typical unimpressive postseason performance losing the Superbowl.

So how do you say Peyton has been great in the postseason.......what games (plural) are you refering to?

I'm guessing you didn't watch the 2006 AFC Championship if you don't consider that a great performance.

Manning threw a pick at the end of the first half that put the Pats up 21-3, but in the second half he carved the Pats defense up and had them for breakfast. The final score was 38-34, and the Colts took the lead on a long drive at the end.

Watch the highlights here if you don't remember: NFL Videos

Those 2006 games are the ones that stand out the most. The game you mentioned was good, and I actually thought he was pretty good in the Super Bowl too, but that last pick in the Super Bowl was a bad one. I'd add that I thought his performance in the 2003 AFC Championship was pretty good, but the Pats got away with mauling a receiver on the final drive.

Again, I'm not strictly judging by stats or wins. I watched the games, and my opinion is based on what I saw.