Newton's personality reminds me of.............

[Mr. Scot]

One thing I neglected to address earlier: Yes, you can apply this to other positions as well.

Examples:

- signing a runningback that excelled in Mike Shanahan's offense

- signing a receiver the put up great numbers in a 'run and shoot' style offense

- signing a guy who excelled as an H-Back when you run a more traditional fullback

- signing a defensive back who looked good playing behind a blitz happy front seven

All of these are "fool's gold" moves, on equal footing with signing a WCO QB to run a non-WCO system.

[HoFBound90]

Also, look at the copetition he faced in that division for the majority of his career. Usually its the best division in the NFC, with a few year exceptions that can be argued for the NFC South.

[HoFBound90]

One thing I neglected to address earlier: Yes, you can apply this to other positions as well.

Examples:

- signing a runningback that excelled in Mike Shanahan's offense

- signing a receiver the put up great numbers in a 'run and shoot' style offense

- signing a guy who excelled as an H-Back when you run a more traditional fullback

- signing a defensive back who looked good playing behind a blitz happy front seven

All of these are "fool's gold" moves, on equal footing with signing a WCO QB to run a non-WCO system.

I agree with all of these but I don't think mcnabb fits so perfectly into a category like this.

[CRA]

Like I said in the other post, I'll give you 'very good' with McNabb as long as he's in a WCO, but great quarterbacks step up on the big stage, and McNabb folded. I can't attach a label of 'great' to that.

Peyton Manning?

Manning has consisantly been a signifcantly better regular season QB.

When Peyton finally got a ring he had 3 TDs, 7 INTs with a horrible Qb rating......and didn't even come close to carrying his team that postseason run.

other years he has flat out laid some huge eggs in the postseason....

so by your definition....you don't consider Peyton great.

[Mr. Scot]

I agree with all of these but I don't think mcnabb fits so perfectly into a category like this.

Mike Shanahan might disagree with you there.

Again, we'll see how he looks back in a WCO this season.

[Mr. Scot]

Peyton Manning?

Manning has consisantly been a signifcantly better regular season QB.

When Peyton finally got a ring he had 3 TDs, 7 INTs with a horrible Qb rating......and didn't even come close to carrying his team that postseason run.

Look back earlier and you'll find I had Manning in the same category until he finally broke through and got his ring.

He actually had that same rep in college when it came time to face Florida.

[theyhateme45]

To look only at wins when talking about how "great" a QB is, is foolish...IMO.

Do you think that Brees, Rodgers, and Brady are as good as the media would have you believe?

Open your eyes a little.

Actually, I can care less what the media says... I know what the main stream media is going to say before the say it, so I listen to very little of it. I base it off of what I see every Sunday. And if Brees, Rodgers, or Brady aren;t as good as we make them to be, then I don't know what the hell the standard is for being good.

So you don't want to look at wins, you don't want to look at stats, you basically just want to say Mcnabb is average cause you don't care for the guy to much and that's what your expert opinion tells you.... Cool, good for you bro.

If that's the case the why the hell is John Elway considered good? I mean he won, but objectively he didn;t do it until he had TD to carry him. So let's just throw him in the same category as Mcnabb.... I mean sense we're being objective not using wins, or stats. Or is Elway great just because the media told you so?

We can even go to good ole Troy Aikman... another hall of famer, but I can look and objectively say... look at all the stars he played with and the lack of competition in the league at the time... I mean he's a product of the system and the players around him, so lets just call him average and put him in mcnabbs category. I'm sure if he left Dallas for lets say the Browns he wasn;t going to have that same kind of success. Same thing you say about Mcnabb right????

[thefuzz]

Peyton Manning?

Manning has consisantly been a signifcantly better regular season QB.

When Peyton finally got a ring he had 3 TDs, 7 INTs with a horrible Qb rating......and didn't even come close to carrying his team that postseason run.

other years he has flat out laid some huge eggs in the postseason....

so by your definition....you don't consider Peyton great.

That's the point.

Scot and I don't think that McNabb carried his team, we think just the opposite, that the team/system carried McNabb.

IMO, Manning carries the Colts, not the other way around.

[HoFBound90]

Mike Shanahan might disagree with you there.

Again, we'll see how he looks back in a WCO this season.

I am not making an excuse here for him, but I feel its a fair point. Due to his age he may not ever be able to perfom up to the ability he could have earlier in his career in a non WCO style. This unfortunantly will prevent either of us from really knowing what could/ could not have been

[thefuzz]

Actually, I can care less what the media says... I know what the main stream media is going to say before the say it, so I listen to very little of it. I base it off of what I see every Sunday. And if Brees, Rodgers, or Brady aren;t as good as we make them to be, then I don't know what the hell the standard is for being good.

So you don't want to look at wins, you don't want to look at stats, you basically just want to say Mcnabb is average cause you don't care for the guy to much and that's what your expert opinion tells you.... Cool, good for you bro.

If that's the case the why the hell is John Elway considered good? I mean he won, but objectively he didn;t do it until he had TD to carry him. So let's just throw him in the same category as Mcnabb.... I mean sense we're being objective not using wins, or stats. Or is Elway great just because the media told you so?

We can even go to good ole Troy Aikman... another hall of famer, but I can look and objectively say... look at all the stars he played with and the lack of competition in the league at the time... I mean he's a product of the system and the players around him, so lets just call him average and put him in mcnabbs category. I'm sure if he left Dallas for lets say the Browns he wasn;t going to have that same kind of success. Same thing you say about Mcnabb right????

When did I say that I didn't want to look at stats?

Actually, you are pretty correct in all that you just said, I do think that Aikman, Elway, and McNabb are all overrated.

Not calling them trash, just that they were and are not as good as most people think.

As for the Rodgers, Brees, and Brady thing, I just think that they all 3 play in systems that are easier to "be great" in. They are all really good QB's, but the system they are in helps them a ton.

Just like McNabb.

[CRA]

Look back earlier and you'll find I had Manning in the same category until he finally broke through and got his ring.

He actually had that same rep in college when it came time to face Florida.

So Manning is great b/c he had a bad postseason run where he didn't "step up"......but since he got a ring anyways he isn't in McNabb's classification?

Manning didn't break through that postseason.....he played bad....team got him the ring that postseason.

I mean, that means if McNabb did everything the same but someone returned a the kick in the SB for a TD and got him the W.....he then would be considered great?

[theyhateme45]

Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring. Is he great?

Kelly and Marino performed well even though their teams didn't win.

Can you really look at McNabb's championship performances and call those "great"?

You're contridicting yourself!

You just said Manning wasn;t great until he won his ring...

You say Mcnabb isn;t great because he didn't win a ring...

But now when the players don't fit into your qualifications for being great you switch it up...

Jim Kelly Super Bowl performances were not great, he did not win a ring, yet you consider him great? Marino did not win a ring yet you consider him great? If they had great perfomances than they should have won just 1 right???

And I guess Mcnabb got to those games, without great performances.... That's right, he relyed on the Dominate offensive line he had, his hall of fame WR's, and Top notch running backs.... It was his supporting cast that had the great performances to take them to those games.

[Mr. Scot]

So Manning is great b/c he had a bad postseason run where he didn't "step up"......but since he got a ring anyways he isn't in McNabb classification?

Manning was a member of the "Almost" club for the better part of his career. McNabb still is. So is Andy Reid. Marty Schottenheimer always will be.

Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher and Steve Young were longtime members of that club before finally breaking out.

[theyhateme45]

When did I say that I didn't want to look at stats?

Actually, you are pretty correct in all that you just said, I do think that Aikman, Elway, and McNabb are all overrated.

Not calling them trash, just that they were and are not as good as most people think.

As for the Rodgers, Brees, and Brady thing, I just think that they all 3 play in systems that are easier to "be great" in. They are all really good QB's, but the system they are in helps them a ton.

Just like McNabb.

So if Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Aikman, Elway. Mcnabb are not great and are all over rated or products of their systems... then who the hell is great! I mean because if these guys are just good, I would hate to know what every other QB is.