"Panther's spending spree cap hits in future seasons"

[Hairless Cat]

Considering we are probably one of the few teams with it's core players signed through 2014/2015 I have no problem with this.

it would go down a bit easier if wed won a couple more games at this point and our core players werent on ir and playing mediocre to poor ball

[Catalyst]

Cap will raise by then.

[carpanfan96]

The cap isn't expected to raise significantly till the 2014 season, when the new ESPN deal kicks in. The next two years are expected to be considerably flat compared to previous increases. CBA states the expected increase is going to be around 4-5 million each season till the deal kicks in. Once the deal kicks in the cap should go up 14-15 million for the 2014 season.

[Razzy]

The cap can be manipulated on a a year to year basis to free up enough room to nab decent FA help.

[panthers55]

Ummmm there is a serious case of 'head in sand' going on right here. The Panthers have taken a risk extending the amount of players they did to multi-year deals on better than generous money. Our next 3-4 years are dependent on this core and a few of them don't pan out, we are then in the fun situation of having to deal with cap penalties for cutting them.

If you think we can extend any player we want every year, you don't understand the implications of these contracts.

Great that they believe in the decisions, but you can't deny it's a risk.

Almost any year you will have dead cap space so it is not a huge deal. Most of the deals we made were for 4 or 5 years but the only part guaranteed is the upfront money. What usually happens on these contracts is that players who are cut along the line have some cap hit for the remainder of the guaranteed money but the big salary is not included. Take Williams for example.

He has 22 million guaranteed which includes a 16 million signing bonus and 5 million of his year 2 salary. The total amount is 43 million. So his signing bonus prorated over 5 years adds roughly 3.2 million cap hit to whatever his salary is that year. So while his salary and cap hit might average a ittle over 8 million (didn't see the actual year to year breakdown), if he gets cut the actual cap hit will be only 3.2 million unless he gets cut soon and the guaranteed money escalates. Still the dead cap space is usually a small percentage of what the actual salary and cap hit are together.

[carpanfan96]

Almost any year you will have dead cap space so it is not a huge deal. Most of the deals we made were for 4 or 5 years but the only part guaranteed is the upfront money. What usually happens on these contracts is that players who are cut along the line have some cap hit for the remainder of the guaranteed money but the big salary is not included. Take Williams for example.

He has 22 million guaranteed which includes a 16 million signing bonus and 5 million of his year 2 salary. The total amount is 43 million. So his signing bonus prorated over 5 years adds roughly 3.2 million cap hit to whatever his salary is that year. So while his salary and cap hit might average a ittle over 8 million (didn't see the actual year to year breakdown), if he gets cut the actual cap hit will be only 3.2 million unless he gets cut soon and the guaranteed money escalates. Still the dead cap space is usually a small percentage of what the actual salary and cap hit are together.

To my knowledge there hasn't been a breakdown of dwill's contract. All I've seen is this current season, which is 6 million base.

[panthers55]

There's really not much you can do to get around these massive signing bonuses. The cap hit for a SB is prorated over the life of the contract (up to 5 years). If the player is cut or traded the remaining cap hit for the signing bonus is accelerated and counts toward the cap immediately.

For example, had we traded DWill before the deadline this season we would have had to absorb a $12.8 million cap hit as the remaining prorated cap hit accelerated. We only have around 2.3-2.4 million in cap space (don't feel like looking up the exact number) so we couldn't have traded him even if we wanted to and had a deal in place. Another example, we are going to have to deal with a 5.6 million cap hit in 2012 for releasing Thomas Davis this offseason.

You can't renegotiate these bonuses either, they've already been paid and are going to hit our cap space eventually, whether the player is still on the team or not.

About the only thing you can do is restructure contracts to move cap hits into the future. You don't create any cap space overall by doing this, you only shift when that cap hit will take place. Doing so can create cap space for the current year at the expense of having a larger cap hit in the future. This is akin to trading future draft picks for current ones and is the #1 thing that leads a team straight into cap hell.

Williams got 22 million guaranteed of which 16 million is a signing bonus and another 5 million is the guaranteed part of his second year salary. First of all why would we trade him after signing him to a 5 year contract, that make no sense. But lets look at a realistic scenario. Lets say we release him at the end of 2013- he will be over 30 and we will have resigned Jon Stewart to a big contract. At that point his salary for 2014 and 2015 will be avoided and we will be on the hook for the rest of the prorated signing bonus which will be either 3.2 million or 6.4 depending on when we release him and whether they have the same clause in the CBA where you can take the dead space cap hit if you cut him before a certain date (June I think) and distribute it over 2 years. Not that bad.

As for Davis you are right we will have a 5.6 million cap hit if we release him. The positive was that his cap hit this year declined from originally being 3.8 to now being 2.4 this year. Releasing him looks likely given we are unlikely to pay the 8 million option for next year. Still his contract would be one they will surely restructure if they decide to take yet another chance on him. I think he is gone.

How much dead cap space did we have this year??? I couldn't find an easily accessible number.

[carpanfan96]

Williams got 22 million guaranteed of which 16 million is a signing bonus and another 5 million is the guaranteed part of his second year salary. First of all why would we trade him after signing him to a 5 year contract, that make no sense. But lets look at a realistic scenario. Lets say we release him at the end of 2013- he will be over 30 and we will have resigned Jon Stewart to a big contract. At that point his salary for 2014 and 2015 will be avoided and we will be on the hook for the rest of the prorated signing bonus which will be either 3.2 million or 6.4 depending on when we release him and whether they have the same clause in the CBA where you can take the dead space cap hit if you cut him before a certain date (June I think) and distribute it over 2 years. Not that bad.

As for Davis you are right we will have a 5.6 million cap hit if we release him. The positive was that his cap hit this year declined from originally being 3.8 to now being 2.4 this year. Releasing him looks likely given we are unlikely to pay the 8 million option for next year. Still his contract would be one they will surely restructure if they decide to take yet another chance on him. I think he is gone.

How much dead cap space did we have this year??? I couldn't find an easily accessible number.

This isn't the exact answer you were looking for, but before the season started Carolina had a payroll number of 70.5 million (50 million under 120) and an available cap amount of 30.65 million.

So a difference of roughly 20 million between actual salary and the cap hit.

[Ricky Spanish]

regardless, williams will be 30 soon and has been hurt at one point or another almost every year he has played in the league.

we payed way too much. I love him, I wanted to keep him, but we did pay too much.

[Gazi]

The cap figure is raised every year

[R0CKnR0LLA]

The cap figure is raised every year

captain obvious to the rescue

[Captain Obvious]

Nope. Just lurking.

[panthers55]

regardless, williams will be 30 soon and has been hurt at one point or another almost every year he has played in the league.

we payed way too much. I love him, I wanted to keep him, but we did pay too much.

I know you keep beating this drum. Still the best way to evaluate anyone's contract is to look at what we paid versus what we got in return. That usually requires a retrospective examination not one at the beginning of the contract. And if you say that it is too much regardless of what he does over the next 4 years, it is presumptive not evaluative and therefore biased and irrelevant.

Look at Newton. Most everyone is saying that his contract is a steal so far. But we are actually guaranteeing him the same money as Williams. Of course we expect Newton to continue to do great and put up big numbers. But (I don't want to jinx him by even saying it) if he were in a car accident and killed tomorrow, what would be the better contract??? Again you won't know otherwise until you see what happens down the road. You may very well be right but to beat the drum over and ever with no objective evidence at this point (comparisons to other backs or stating we should have gotten him cheaper or could have gotten this guy instead is not objective evidence) is inaccurate and more grievious, annoying.

Just my 2 cents.

[Kurb]

p55 is nailing this stuff.

you babies should take notes