Does Chud. Run a West Coast Offense?

[panthers55]

We will not be San Diego because we don't have Phillip Rivers and San Diego didn't really have a great running attack. So will we borrow elements of the WCO offense? Yes, the timing routes, YAC, and lots of short to intermediate passing. Why won't it be a WCO in it's true sense. Because we willl use lots of play action, still use the run to set up the pass, and not expect the QB to win the game for us. The WCO relies on the passing game primarily where we will be more balanced. We will use more downfield passing to keep safeties out of the box and to abuse them throwing to the TEs in the seams when they cheat up too much.

Thruly their are only four main offensive systems used in the NFL. The WCO, the Ernhardt-Perkins offense, Air Coryell and the run and shoot. etc.

Here is a short discussion of each.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/4/2/1401542/examining-nfl-offensive

We will use a variation of the Air Coryell system I would think. Why? look at the Qb requirements of each. With Newton we have a strong armed quarterback who can stretch the field vertically, run and buy time. He isn't particularly accurate and can't read defenses that quickly. So he doesn't fit a WCO at this point.

[panthers55]

What gets me is this; you were one of the people claiming that "Pickles" is a WCO player. Now he is in a WCO and he doesn't fit the scheme. So which is it? Are you just throwing poo at the wall hoping it sticks? For everyone that keeps saying Chuds offense is a vertical offense; where the hell are you getting that information from? This is a slightly modified WCO such as the topic of this thread. If you go look up the stats, in Chuds offense, you will see that 75% of the passes were less than 20 yards...this isn't a vertical passing offense lol

So again, according to you, and others, he would be a great WCO QB. He is in one now but yet he doesn't fit.

Turth or Poo?

75% of passes in any system are thrown for 20 yards or less. Vertical passing means you are stretching the field vertically instead of horizontally. A 20 yard pass is throwing over the top of the defense. But even that is misleading. A vertical passing attack means that on most routes you have a guy or two going deep which stretches the field. It doesn't mean you always throw it to them or the majority of your passes are deep ones. By stretching the defense vertically it sends your safeties deep and puts guys in 1 on 1 matchups on the

intermediate and shorter routes. So even a vertical passing attack doesn't

throw the ball 30 or 40 yards more than a half dozen times in a game.

[CRA]

75% of passes in any system are thrown for 20 yards or less. Vertical passing means you are stretching the field vertically instead of horizontally. A 20 yard pass is throwing over the top of the defense. But even that is misleading. A vertical passing attack means that on most routes you have a guy or two going deep which stretches the field. It doesn't mean you always throw it to them or the majority of your passes are deep ones. By stretching the defense vertically it sends your safeties deep and puts guys in 1 on 1 matchups on the

intermediate and shorter routes. So even a vertical passing attack doesn't

throw the ball 30 or 40 yards more than a half dozen times in a game.

exactly....but there has to be a legitmate threat of going to those vertical routes. With Clausen defenses know if you bring a little pressure then Clausen is going to ignore those options.

[panthers55]

exactly....but there has to be a legitmate threat of going to those vertical routes. With Clausen defenses know if you bring a little pressure then Clausen is going to ignore those options.

You do have to have teams respect your downfield attack or it essentially puts one of your receivers down the field as a decoy. So yeah you have to air it out occasionally. And while I am open to see what Newton and Clausen do this year, I would agree that last year Clausen was afraid to throw it down the field. I haven't been to training camp so far, so I can't say that he isn't doing it now exept for reports from camp where he seems not to be doing it that often.

[CRA]

You do have to have teams respect your downfield attack or it essentially puts one of your receivers down the field as a decoy. So yeah you have to air it out occasionally. And while I am open to see what Newton and Clausen do this year, I would agree that last year Clausen was afraid to throw it down the field. I haven't been to training camp so far, so I can't say that he isn't doing it now exept for reports from camp where he seems not to be doing it that often.

and if teams know those routes are decoys and not threats it lets them focus on your other routes......

so far from camp, Cam makes those routes threats.....Clausen makes them decoys.

[Sword]

Clausen has -in my opinion- a fatal flaw and it's why no he is hesitant to throw downfield and why no team will really honor the deepball threat with him in there: Being 6'2 and his sidearm mechanics..with his natural motion the ball is always going to get batted down or picked easily because of the low trajectory..when he tries to be delibrate with his deep ball it just ends up being a big windup floater that's just as dangerous. Philip Rivers can get away with his arm motion since he's taller and the ball will just come out higher because of that. You would think with all the QB coaching he got as a child would have developed perfect mechanics..don't know how that got screwed up along the way.

[Fan01]

Every football fan should read the book, "The Seven Games that Changed the Game." by Ron Jaworski. He picks 7 games from NFL history and really breaks them down. By doing so you get a great explanation of the different systems that are run in the NFL in intricate detail from a QB who played the game. Great book and really enhanced my knowledge of football.

http://www.amazon.com/Games-That-Changed-Game-Evolution/dp/0345517954

[edromeo]

Chud runs the Coryell offense not the current (Walsh) WCO.

In a sense Chudz runs the "original" WCO.

Here's a a few sentences from a couple of great articles about the Coryell offense and about Chudz's offense in general must read for any serious football X's and O's junnkie/ Panther's fan:

http://www.derp/2011/2/5/1975521/so-what-will-the-offense-look-like-in-2011-part-one

http://www.derp/2011/6/1/2200621/getting-to-brass-tacks-what-will-be-the-differences-in-chudzinskis

Anyone read the links in the above quote?

[diehard panther#1]

Chud is running a Eastcoast offence now!!! ;)

[panthers55]

Anyone read the links in the above quote?

Yeah I read them six months ago when Cyberjag wrote the article. Good read.

[panthers55]

Part of the issue is that there are 3 basic systems and all of the 32 teams run some version of them. So we are either running an air coryell or west coast offense or some version of both. There are very fews teams that strictly run one system or the other all of the time.

[carpanfan96]

Air Coryell - Can either be ran with two philosophies

1. Power Run to set up pass - Original John Fox in Carolina style of play

2. Pass to set up the run.

Deeper to intermediate routes usually 7, 8, 9's for 1-2 WR's the other receivers run crossing routes, flats, so forth. The intended purpose of the deep route is to pull the safety and open up the Crossing routes.

Depending on who's version of the Air Coryell offense that's being ran, those cross routes can be shallow 5-10 yards or intermediate 10-15/20 yards.

It's a timing based offense still built off of the 3 and 5 step drops, will have more 7 step drops then the Walsh WCO because of longer routes.

If it's ran pass first, the passing game's intention is to stretch the field both vertically and horizontally to open up the run game and the potential for YAC.

Differences from the WCO.

Typically runs deeper routes on the outside and the QB has more freedom on where to go with the ball.

WCO - Generally ran pass first to open up the run.

Walsh's system generally ran 3 and 5 step drops, but did incorporate some 7 step drops occasionally. Set up to stretch the field horizontally to allow for YAC and longer gains on run plays.

Plays were set up where routes pulled the defense apart and allowed the QB to go to a designated receiver that the play was set up for.

Largely timing based and incorporated a ton of crossing routes, outs, slants and so forth. Quick easy completions that allowed the offense to both control the clock and generate first downs in an easier fashion to allow his coaching philosophy to shine through.

Walsh's coaching was simply based upon his though that if the Offense could get 25 first downs plus the team have good Special Teams play that it would generally allow wins to come in an easy fashion.

They are both still based off of Sid Gillman's offense and are timing based passing offenses in the sense that the base of the offenses are still based off of the same philosophies.

Spread the defense to allow the shallow or crossing routes to come open for 5-20 yard gains and make running the ball easier. The main difference between the two is once has deep routes ran more often then the other because it stretches the field both vertically and horizontally instead of just horizontally.

For Newton or Clausen to run Chud's offense effectively they "WILL" have to take chances down the field at least 5 times a game if not more.

I do like that Chud is adding in option runs and Option read plays into the offense for Cam. It should be fun to see them running those at the pro level this Saturday.

I for one, can't wait to see what Chud has cooked up in his back pocket for Newton and this season.

[mav1234]

For Newton or Clausen to run Chud's offense effectively they "WILL" have to take chances down the field at least 5 times a game if not more. .

how deep are you thinking when you refer to taking chances down the field?

[carpanfan96]

how deep are you thinking when you refer to taking chances down the field?

The offensive philosphy of the Gillman-Coryell offense is to pull the safety's either out towards the sidelines or deep covering the outside deep WR.

Generally what the offense wants to happen is for the safety's to move onto the deep WR's leaving the TE, Slot Receiver, ext open for routes over the middle of the field in single coverage / gaping holes in a zone based defense.

So to answer that question, it would depend on what the defense is running and how they are playing their safety's. Typically I'd say those 5-10 shots down the field would need to be 25+ yards on average.

Those passes don't necessarily have to be completions, just the shots need to be taken. The offense will be more effective if 2-5 can be completed, the rest is based off of running the ball and YAC from crossing, out, and slant routes.

While it's probably a given that the Panther's will run the ball more and rely on Play action passes. "Probably similar to what SD ran in River's rookie season play calling wise" the key is still to push the ball down the field on those passes.

So either way Carolina runs Chud's offense, the QB is going to need to be able to complete those Down the field passes. That and the fact that Chud is throwing in option plays and runs for Newton, makes me think that Newton is likely to be the starter come opening day. "That is unless he completely bombs in the pre-season games, maybe the first one won't be pretty. After that I think he settles down and becomes the starter for the season.

Way too many things being added to the offense for Newton + the offense style being suited more so for Newton then Clausen = makes me think that the decision has already been made on who's the starter for the season.