Does Chud. Run a West Coast Offense?

[CRA]

This is just flat out wrong and misinformation. You are now spewing your hate for the guy again instead of looking at the situation in an unbias manner.

Clausen has CERTAINLY completed passes over 10 yards with the D in front of him just like Cam has completed some withing 10 yards with the D in front of him. When you say things like this there will be some on here that take it as fact and start spreading it around. Please don't say thing like "he isn't completing passes over 10 yards" because that is simply not true.

no it isn't. that doesn't mean Clausen hasn't completed a single pass over 10 yards but isn't doing it frequently enough......

also, Clausen hasn't played in camp against a D w/ a gameplan against his short route preference.

[HPPantherzfan]

no it isn't. that doesn't mean Clausen hasn't completed a single pass over 10 yards but isn't doing it frequently enough......

also, Clausen hasn't played in camp against a D w/ a gameplan against his short route preference.

Neither has Cam and Jimmy has still looked better...

Anyway this was about this type of offense, yes it is WCO that has been modified slightly.

I have a question for you CRA, not just you but all of you guys that keep hating on Jimmy, why is it so hard to say "good job Jimmy". He has improved from last year, a year in which anyone that knows anything about football understands that NO QB had a chance to be successful. Why is it so hard to understand that Jimmy SHOULD look better than Cam and in many cases DOES? Cam is a rookie he is going to make mistakes and Jimmy should look better than he does.

Its not that hard to get behind both guys and wish for the best instead of constantly finding reasons to belittle someone.

Just thought I would ask you that because while I've seen some on here at least say hey he looks better maybe we can trade for him, we have a larger number that can't see it as a good thing at all; I just don't understand how you can't support a Panther and call yourself a Panther fan.

[mj4life]

chud's offense has short & intermediate routes that can move the chains, but for this offense to reach it's full potential the defense has to believe you can strike deep at any giving time & not just as a decoy. it like trying run play action but not being able to establish the run

[CRA]

Neither has Cam and Jimmy has still looked better...

Anyway this was about this type of offense, yes it is WCO that has been modified slightly.

I have a question for you CRA, not just you but all of you guys that keep hating on Jimmy, why is it so hard to say "good job Jimmy". He has improved from last year, a year in which anyone that knows anything about football understands that NO QB had a chance to be successful. Why is it so hard to understand that Jimmy SHOULD look better than Cam and in many cases DOES? Cam is a rookie he is going to make mistakes and Jimmy should look better than he does.

Its not that hard to get behind both guys and wish for the best instead of constantly finding reasons to belittle someone.

Just thought I would ask you that because while I've seen some on here at least say hey he looks better maybe we can trade for him, we have a larger number that can't see it as a good thing at all; I just don't understand how you can't support a Panther and call yourself a Panther fan.

Neither has Cam what? Cam has been making all the throws(unlike Clausen)....and has been very impressive downfield (and that is the only way for Chud's offense to be successful).

again, how has Jimmy improved? Clausen could hit 7 consecutive 7 yard passes in practice last camp. Nothing in camp points to improvement......everything points to him playing QB the same way as last year. What weakness has he improved on........Jimmy should look better overall....overall he doesn't. At best you can say they are equal overall w/ different strengths and weaknesses....but still Chud's scheme would give Cam the edge based on those strengths and weaknesses.I dislike Jimmy as a Panther b/c we didn't and aren't running a scheme that fits him.

The coaches want Cam to start week 1 ideally. All Clausen is for Chud is Brady Quinn part II......Quinn plays the game much like Clausen. He came into Chud's offense prefering to dink and dunk and it was almost as sad as Clausen in Fox's scheme.

[mav1234]

weaknesses jimmy's improved on -

really worked on his touch on short and intermediate passes. He isn't gunning it in short anymore. he had this bad habit of throwing it so hard it'd bounce off receivers and backs in short yardage situations last year.

pocket presence - as bad as it still is, it was much better at fan fest than it was last year. he looked to move up in the pocket and make plays instead of retreating backwards. if he can continue this in games, good.

recognition of his hot read - as much flak as he takes for "check downs," he completed a couple nice quick reads that last year he likely wouldn't have and instead turned and tried to outrun a blitz

he appears to have some better chemistry and at least some kind of not-terrible relationship with the receivers now... nothing like Cam, but hey, he's not even close to Cam's charisma.

it's not enough, but it is something. I think he is doing better with pressure but obviously not there yet. he's got a lot to work on still. and with a real defense, perhaps he'll look much worse. that's why I'm trying not to think one way or the other about our offense until preseason. I'm excited to see it, but I'm really not sure how it will look in games.

you are right the coaches want Cam to start if he can - he is clearly the future. but if he isn't ready, he's not going to be forced. By most accounts, Clausen is more consistent but less explosive. When Cam gets the consistency down, he'll be the starter.

also I'm not sure where you are getting this "brady quinn II, it can never work!" stuff. quinn played in only 2 complete games as a Brown with Chud as his OC, and he was doing fine for a young guy until he was injured in his third start. The rest is history...

[CRA]

weaknesses jimmy's improved on -

really worked on his touch on short and intermediate passes. He isn't gunning it in short anymore. he had this bad habit of throwing it so hard it'd bounce off receivers and backs in short yardage situations last year.

pocket presence - as bad as it still is, it was much better at fan fest than it was last year. he looked to move up in the pocket and make plays instead of retreating backwards. if he can continue this in games, good.

recognition of his hot read - as much flak as he takes for "check downs," he completed a couple nice quick reads that last year he likely wouldn't have and instead turned and tried to outrun a blitz

he appears to have some better chemistry and at least some kind of not-terrible relationship with the receivers now... nothing like Cam, but hey, he's not even close to Cam's charisma.

it's not enough, but it is something. I think he is doing better with pressure but obviously not there yet. he's got a lot to work on still. and with a real defense, perhaps he'll look much worse. that's why I'm trying not to think one way or the other about our offense until preseason. I'm excited to see it, but I'm really not sure how it will look in games.

you are right the coaches want Cam to start if he can - he is clearly the future. but if he isn't ready, he's not going to be forced. By most accounts, Clausen is more consistent but less explosive. When Cam gets the consistency down, he'll be the starter.

also I'm not sure where you are getting this "brady quinn II, it can never work!" stuff. quinn played in only 2 complete games as a Brown with Chud as his OC, and he was doing fine for a young guy until he was injured in his third start. The rest is history...

Jimmy's touch on short throws was not one of his weaknesses that made him suck giant donkey balls.

Jimmy has some HUGE weaknesses....he needs to work on them before improvement on the others matter.

I wouldn't call Clausen consistant.....I would call him looking to be conservative.

Brady Quinn came into Chud's downfield attack and checkdowned, and checkdowned, followed by another checkdown.....it didn't work. A poor performing Anderson was a better option b/c his style at least fit the scheme. A check down QB ain't gonna work in lots of offenses.....didn't in the last one here and won't in the next one.

[HPPantherzfan]

weaknesses jimmy's improved on -

really worked on his touch on short and intermediate passes. He isn't gunning it in short anymore. he had this bad habit of throwing it so hard it'd bounce off receivers and backs in short yardage situations last year.

pocket presence - as bad as it still is, it was much better at fan fest than it was last year. he looked to move up in the pocket and make plays instead of retreating backwards. if he can continue this in games, good.

recognition of his hot read - as much flak as he takes for "check downs," he completed a couple nice quick reads that last year he likely wouldn't have and instead turned and tried to outrun a blitz

he appears to have some better chemistry and at least some kind of not-terrible relationship with the receivers now... nothing like Cam, but hey, he's not even close to Cam's charisma.

it's not enough, but it is something. I think he is doing better with pressure but obviously not there yet. he's got a lot to work on still. and with a real defense, perhaps he'll look much worse. that's why I'm trying not to think one way or the other about our offense until preseason. I'm excited to see it, but I'm really not sure how it will look in games.

you are right the coaches want Cam to start if he can - he is clearly the future. but if he isn't ready, he's not going to be forced. By most accounts, Clausen is more consistent but less explosive. When Cam gets the consistency down, he'll be the starter.

also I'm not sure where you are getting this "brady quinn II, it can never work!" stuff. quinn played in only 2 complete games as a Brown with Chud as his OC, and he was doing fine for a young guy until he was injured in his third start. The rest is history...

I just give up trying to explain it to him :(

He has a lot of hate for Jimmy, he took Matts job and run him out of town

(totally kidding CRA)

[CRA]

I just give up trying to explain it to him :(

He has a lot of hate for Jimmy, he took Matts job and run him out of town

(totally kidding CRA)

The proof is in the pudding. Clausen stinks in the type schemes Chud is going to run. If you want to defend Clausen I have no problem w/ that.....but not in a offense w/ an emphasis on the vertical pass game.

[HPPantherzfan]

The proof is in the pudding. Clausen stinks in the type schemes Chud is going to run. If you want to defend Clausen I have no problem w/ that.....but not in a offense w/ an emphasis on the vertical pass game.

What gets me is this; you were one of the people claiming that "Pickles" is a WCO player. Now he is in a WCO and he doesn't fit the scheme. So which is it? Are you just throwing poo at the wall hoping it sticks? For everyone that keeps saying Chuds offense is a vertical offense; where the hell are you getting that information from? This is a slightly modified WCO such as the topic of this thread. If you go look up the stats, in Chuds offense, you will see that 75% of the passes were less than 20 yards...this isn't a vertical passing offense lol

So again, according to you, and others, he would be a great WCO QB. He is in one now but yet he doesn't fit.

Turth or Poo?

[mav1234]

clausen's single biggest failing last year was in passes 11-20 yards. if he can't complete those with regularity he can't play in *any offense.* Even Walsh's WCO requires you to be able to hit a receiver that far out.

[CRA]

What gets me is this; you were one of the people claiming that "Pickles" is a WCO player. Now he is in a WCO and he doesn't fit the scheme. So which is it? Are you just throwing poo at the wall hoping it sticks? For everyone that keeps saying Chuds offense is a vertical offense; where the hell are you getting that information from? This is a slightly modified WCO such as the topic of this thread. If you go look up the stats, in Chuds offense, you will see that 75% of the passes were less than 20 yards...this isn't a vertical passing offense lol

So again, according to you, and others, he would be a great WCO QB. He is in one now but yet he doesn't fit.

Turth or Poo?

No, I have stated the type of WCO Clausen needs to be in.....and THAT offense (Bill Walsh) is what I mean by WCO. All WCO offenses aren't the same nor talked about the same.

As I have stated before and people have argued w/ me....Weiss ran a variation of a a WCO offense at Notre Dame. It was the only way he was going to find success w/ him at the college level. As panther55 pointed out, it is more of a mindset than anything and Clausen as I have repeated said commented about his whack throwing motion and how Weiss dealt w/ it (WCO principles).

Chud tecnically runs a WCO...but it is one that requires you to stand in the pocket and go downfield often (not all WCO do that). Clausen doesn't fit Chud's scheme. Due to Clausen's size and speed of the NFL you can't just tweak things like Weis did for Clausen.....he needs an NFL offense w/ his style of QB play having the offense built around it.

I have been very consistant w/ all that

[HPPantherzfan]

clausen's single biggest failing last year was in passes 11-20 yards. if he can't complete those with regularity he can't play in *any offense.* Even Walsh's WCO requires you to be able to hit a receiver that far out.

I agree, but he has been hitting those so far this year...the ones Cam has been missing!

I still want to know where this vertical passing mega offense we are supposed to have come from?!

[CRA]

I agree, but he has been hitting those so far this year...the ones Cam has been missing!

I still want to know where this vertical passing mega offense we are supposed to have come from?!

you sure are wasting a lot of energy defending Clausen....when the next few weeks he is just going to prove to be the same guy he has always been and not what you claim he now is.

I will talk to you in a couple weeks....but by then he will either be the #3 or #2 and not worth much debate.

[HPPantherzfan]

you sure are wasting a lot of energy defending Clausen....when the next few weeks he is just going to prove to be the same guy he has always been and not what you claim he now is.

I will talk to you in a couple weeks....but by then he will either be the #3 or #2 and not worth much debate.

LOL

Fair enough