JR Addresses Accusations of Being Cheap

[panthers55]

I realize the point.. I just don't think it applies to the players we cut..

Moss' would have ended up in NE if OchoCinco didn't land there.. he also could have went to plenty of teams had he lowered his standards..

the players we cut went into retirement for 1 reason.. they had nothing left to offer to anyone.

I think if Fox did a better job of coaching up players over the years, the shock of dropping those players wouldn't have been so obvious.. they would have been replaced already..

Don't agree. Who had more receptions and yards?? Moss in 2010 or Moose in 2009???

I do agree that Fox didn't do a good job with depth and developing role players with some exceptions.

[panthers55]

are you fuging kidding me? none of what you said just made sense.. you really think 2010 was the only draft Fox was involved in?

no, I was talking about hiring Rivera for the 2010 season.. meaning he would have been hired prior to the 2010 season..

as for Rivera being available, I wasn't aware..

Most any assistant worth their salt is under contract as an assistant when they are hired as a head coach. Teams can stop folks from lateral moves or a move from position coach to coordinator but not from coordinator to head coach.

[panthers55]

By the way p55, I lost more money in business last year as a result of the Panthers' season than you did in ticket prices, so should I be up in arms too?

Was it due to things beyond your control like the economy, bad decisions you made or things one of your partners or clients did for their own benefit which caused you harm?? Depending on the cause it changes whether you have a gripe or not.

[panthers55]

Then you leave yourself in this contractual situation with the new HC

One year deal - No one will agree to that

Two year deal - Whats the point considering the possible lockout

Three year deal - Need to make a decision in year two to keep them or walk into another 'lame duck' situation

Four year deal - Have to make a decision in year three, which is the year after the lockout, no chance to build up a core of players.

The only option was sinking into a long term 5 year+ deal.

I've said it before, but if he wanted Fox out, he needed to let him go after 2009, when we went 12-4.

There could have been a contract which accounted for the lockout and protected Richarson if there was no season even within a long term deal. Then Rivera would have had a choice to make. It isn't like he had other choices. After being turned down by 9 teams the last time he may have gone for the deal.

[bleys]

Don't agree. Who had more receptions and yards?? Moss in 2010 or Moose in 2009???

I do agree that Fox didn't do a good job with depth and developing role players with some exceptions.

come on man.. we both know that was due to Moss' temperament and not being old and useless.. switching to 3 teams says everything..

Moose is probly the only example you could really make due to his conditioning, even though he is fuging old as dirt now..

[panthers55]

So it's JR's fault that Fox failed to put effort into a job he was being paid millions of dollars to do.

Yeah it was. Tell me one time in the NFl where a lameduck situation worked out.

[bleys]

Yeah it was. Tell me one time in the NFl where a lameduck situation worked out.

not sure, but I can guarantee it's 0% chance when the coach says fug it.. lol

[panthers55]

come on man.. we both know that was due to Moss' temperament and not being old and useless.. switching to 3 teams says everything..

Moose is probly the only example you could really make due to his conditioning, even though he is fuging old as dirt now..

Moose would have been invaluable as a mentor to the young guys and would have helped keep Smitty in check. He was a great blocker which would have helped the right tackle when Otah couldn't go. Hoover was a great locker room presence and had quite a bit left in the tank. Lewis and Kemo would have been huge upgrades over what we had last year. All of those guys were useful and would have given us a veteran presence which we needed. Their contracts all expired after 2010 and we would have been much better off. Given how Moore screwed the pooch and we had to pay Jake millions for nothing you could have made a big argument in hinsight of course that we should have kept him as well.

[panthers55]

not sure, but I can guarantee it's 0% chance when the coach says fug it.. lol

Exactly. tell me what lameduck coach wouldn't say that. It is like employees who give you a 2 week notice. Who actually is worth a flip during that time.

[bleys]

Moose would have been invaluable as a mentor to the young guys and would have helped keep Smitty in check. He was a great blocker which would have helped the right tackle when Otah couldn't go. Hoover was a great locker room presence and had quite a bit left in the tank. Lewis and Kemo would have been huge upgrades over what we had last year. All of those guys were useful and would have given us a veteran presence which we needed. Their contracts all expired after 2010 and we would have been much better off. Given how Moore screwed the pooch and we had to pay Jake millions for nothing you could have made a big argument in hinsight of course that we should have kept him as well.

that's really the only way this conversation exists, IMO...

[bleys]

Moose would have been invaluable as a mentor to the young guys and would have helped keep Smitty in check. He was a great blocker which would have helped the right tackle when Otah couldn't go. Hoover was a great locker room presence and had quite a bit left in the tank. Lewis and Kemo would have been huge upgrades over what we had last year. All of those guys were useful and would have given us a veteran presence which we needed. Their contracts all expired after 2010 and we would have been much better off. Given how Moore screwed the pooch and we had to pay Jake millions for nothing you could have made a big argument in hinsight of course that we should have kept him as well.

that's really the only way this conversation exists, IMO...

and so I can say this about all those examples...

Moose, could have kept.. agree we should have.

Hoover, major back problems and we had more than an efficient backup ready.

Kemo, achilles + his weight + his age.. doubtful I'd ever put money on that..

Lewis.. I can agree he would have provided something.. I really doubt how much, but "something" we can agree on..

Delhomme, there's no valid reason to assume we should have kept him after his play -vs- Moore's..

at the end of the day, players have to refuel the roster with talent and leadership.. like I stated before, Fox did a shitty job of developing that talent (across the board).. if he had done a better job, we wouldn't have observed the beheading of those players all at once, who failed to do much anywhere else, and most retired because no one wanted them..

and so our younger players can now build upon their experience from last year..

edit: the rest out to keep point focused..

[panthers55]

that's really the only way this conversation exists, IMO...

and so I can say this about all those examples...

Moose, could have kept.. agree we should have.

Hoover, major back problems and we had more than an efficient backup ready.

Kemo, achilles + his weight + his age.. doubtful I'd ever put money on that..

Lewis.. I can agree he would have provided something.. I really doubt how much, but "something" we can agree on..

Delhomme, there's no valid reason to assume we should have kept him after his play -vs- Moore's..

at the end of the day, players have to refuel the roster with talent and leadership.. like I stated before, Fox did a pooty job of developing that talent (across the board).. if he had done a better job, we wouldn't have observed the beheading of those players who failed to do much anywhere else, and most retired because no one wanted them..

and so our younger players can now build upon their experience from last year..

Lewis and Moose wouldn't have changed much, if anything.. and leadership is hardly a valid reason to keep a player around if that's ALL they do when you have capable backups behind them..

I agree it's extremely important, as in life or death for a franchise.. but Fox needed to be MUCCCCCCCCCCCCH less stubborn and do a better job to avoid all that anyhow..

So to sum it up, if you keep Fox then Richardson was crazy to do what he did getting rid of all the vets forcing Fox to do what he is poor at. When we made that decision to keep him, we should have kept the vets and fared much better. If we really wanted to go young and cheap by dumping the vets, then you dump Fox as well and go with a Rivera type guy. That way you get the system in place and are way ahead if a lockout happens and you are pressed like we are this year. What makes no sense is dumping vets and keeping Fox unless of course you are so penny wise and pound foolish and think saving 5 million is worth what happened.

[bleys]

So to sum it up, if you keep Fox then Richardson was crazy to do what he did getting rid of all the vets forcing Fox to do what he is poor at. When we made that decision to keep him, we should have kept the vets and fared much better. If we really wanted to go young and cheap by dumping the vets, then you dump Fox as well and go with a Rivera type guy. That way you get the system in place and are way ahead if a lockout happens and you are pressed like we are this year. What makes no sense is dumping vets and keeping Fox unless of course you are so penny wise and pound foolish and think saving 5 million is worth what happened.

so then it all comes back to JR wanted the new guys to gain experience and outright said he knew Fox wouldn't let that happen...

and speaking of his weaknesses, Fox was the one who decided to stay and collect dough..

I just don't see where I would have changed the events that took place (without using hindsight) with all factors considered..

new regime on the way, might as well get experience for young guys, lockout looming.. perfect storm where failure could occur regardless of which factor you weigh more with..

[fitty76]

I'm late to the party. (Because my work blocks this website). Let me just say; F U JERRY!!!

And F U to the HOMER Panther fans who don't have a problem with what JR said today.