Truly speaking - how much of last year's inept play was due to John Fox?

[dimbee]

I am not trolling you guys. I want to hear your honest opinions. Cam was a cannonball in the pool for the Panthers- BIG splash. But other than the Olsen trade, I don't see how the Panthers have had an influx of new and true talent. The Panthers have made big news resigning current players and players from last year that were Free Agents. I will agree wholeheartedly that Fox's time to leave was past due and the team knew as much and played like it. Add to that the QB position was the most glaring weakness. I know everyone, including myself, is excited about the potential of Cam Newton and what he might bring.

So, realistically speaking, where is the area where you feel the Panthers have improved the most and how much do you think that will affect this season?

[Dpantherman]

There was an obvious lack of talent in certain areas due to injury and lack of experience that weren't his fault. But ever since that 2008 playoff debacle, it seemed like John Fox's stubbornness and unwillingness to change helped handcuff this team.

[Donald LaFell]

I think it was the morale of JR cutting all the vets and everybody knowing fox was gone. Fox was trying his hardest to care about a franchise that didn't care about him.

Also DT and QB were so bad it just ruined everything. Other than DT and QB we are a very good team, if DT and QB are even average i think we can get a wildcard spot.

People blame too much on Fox now that he's gone, it's easy to blame him for everything. He is to blame for 2010 though, if he had been a better coach in the years previous JR wouldn't have had to take the actions he took.

[Dpantherman]

I'm speaking beyond 2010 (or before rather).

[lightsout]

Coaching. That is where it starts. See, it works like this:

-Coach comes in, makes first impression (NEEDS to be a good one).

-Players analyze that first impression and decide whether or not to trust and respect that coach fully (Fox did OK at first).

-Coach has to continue to leave a good impression on the players. This can be accomplished by adding stuff to the playbook, bringing in guys to improve the team vastly, not just fill roles all the time. Players for the future, that kind of stuff. Position battles need to be constant, otherwise, players get complacent (see also, Peppers) and the team feels as though "well, the best guy might not get the job. Coach likes this player over that player based on a bias (this is where Fox had trouble).

-If coach fails to do this, there will be some issues. Players won't trust play-calls, players won't respect the coaching staff, etc.

-Coach loses confidence, which can effect how practices run, how much "new" stuff he introduces to remain unpredictable, how play-calling goes, etc. (obviously, Fox had these issues).

I believe the above format can explain everything last season. Last season was also due to injury, inconsistency along the line, and terrible QB play.

Apart from coaching, I think our WR/TEs have GREATLY improved. Young guys have more experience and the jitters are entirely out. Bringing in a guy like Olson is huge. And our QB play is GOING to be better (I mean, you can't get worse than last year).

[teeray]

I like to believe it was more Jeff Davidson than John Fox.

[dimbee]

-Players analyze that first impression and decide whether or not to trust and respect that coach fully (Fox did OK at first).

Really. "OK?" He did get that team to the SB in his second season...

[Kevin Greene]

I am not trolling you guys. I want to hear your honest opinions. Cam was a cannonball in the pool for the Panthers- BIG splash. But other than the Olsen trade, I don't see how the Panthers have had an influx of new and true talent. The Panthers have made big news resigning current players and players from last year that were Free Agents. I will agree wholeheartedly that Fox's time to leave was past due and the team knew as much and played like it. Add to that the QB position was the most glaring weakness. I know everyone, including myself, is excited about the potential of Cam Newton and what he might bring.

So, realistically speaking, where is the area where you feel the Panthers have improved the most and how much do you think that will affect this season?

Valid points.

The Panthers aren't suddenly A talent and a case can easily be made every team in the NFC South is better than us. 2 years of paying Peppers rather than keeping or adding other talent, complete lack of influx of free agent talent last year combined with losses on the line etc. Add all that to a Fox blockhead mentality to do it the vanilla way and not putting the slim talent on the roster in the best position to succeed has taken its toll.

A new regime in Carolina and the #1 overall should and does bring new optimisim to Panther fans hungry for a winning team, as it should.

I'm damned happy Fox is in the rear view and can't wait to see improvement on the field this year as Carolina builds towards once again being a Playoff caliber NFL team, not this year, but certainly next. :yesnod:

[lightsout]

Really. "OK?" He did get that team to the SB in his second season...

Well, I was speaking year to year. His first season here, he made a great impression on everybody. Fans, players, FO, everybody. But after that, I just feel like he got complacent. Like, "OK, I made the Super Bowl. Who doesn't want to play for a coach who went to the Super Bowl?" and I feel like that caused him to not try to build that great report with players when they came in (apart from a couple guys). This, to me, is at least PART of the reason why the vast majority of the team (if not all of them) were happy when we got rid of Fox and got Rivera.

[SuperMan]

I like to believe it was more Jeff Davidson than John Fox.

That's what we said about Dan Henning too. we see how that was, it was Fox he can't adapt.

[Happy Panther]

I've never thought John Fox was the cause of our problems. Maybe there was a lame duck aspect to it but on any team you have a whole bunch of guys who will do anything to make an impression for the next regime whether it is the same team or different.

An NFL QB's job is to go out and execute the plays whether it is a "good" play or not. While there may have been too many draw plays on 3rd and long, Clausen had plenty of decent opportunities besides those.

[OneBadassCat]

The way I see it Fox could have done things in 2008-2010 that would have kept him year. It wasn't just last season. The problems Fox has had as a coach were the same problems he had since he got here.

[Doyle]

It wasn't Fox who was to blame last year. If you were told or knew at the end of this year you would no longer have your present job how much would you care? Anyone who thinks Fox was to blame for last year is an idiot. It was a franchise that decided to rebuild and that is all it was.

[frash.exe]

In 2009 they tried their hardest to preserve the 2008 team that made the playoffs. They put in the guys that Fox would've wanted. Key positions were taken by Fox-preferred players (QB-Delhomme, WR2-Keyshawn, DE-Brayton, TE-King, DT-Damione Lewis). It was clear that most of those people were way past their prime and were only there keeping younger talent on the bench, or didn't even have much talent backing them because of poor investment effort, which was probably influenced by Fox until 2009. After the 2009 team which was put on the field to repeat the success of 2008 failed miserably, Fox lost the support of the FO with Marty Hurney taking JR's side. Just about every aging vet was cut. The 2010 draft showed a drastic shift in priority: 2 QBs, 2 WRs, and a QB/WR hybrid player picked. Fox never had a draft he was involved in end up like this, especially with your first pick being a QB. If you ask Fox about 2010 he'd say they set him up to fail, but in the FO's point of view they set him up to succeed for many years and he fell way short of expectations.

In the end Fox got a little too big for his britches. He was full of himself, and unapologetic and indifferent after many critical losses from 2006-on. It almost looked like he felt entitled to fug up because of a few playoff runs early in his coaching career here. He'd basically force aging players to start until they were dragging ass on the field by the second quarter or blowing out their knees. His philosophy was quickly showing its age more and more. While he had influence he'd stockpile talent at linebacker and running back over filling a gaping hole elsewhere.

I'm convinced that Fox had a lot to do with the Delhomme extension, coerced Hurney into taking a leap of faith and when it's the first game of the new season and he's throwing 4 interceptions and losing a fumble, almost a mirror image to the Arizona game, our billion dollar running game is getting stuffed at the LOS, and Fox has no answers for it, it kind of kills his whole rep

2010 wasn't a year that just happened, it was an end result of everything that had been building up to that point.