Yas: Mixed reviews on Cam Newton's Debut

[chef17]

A lot of those QBs you can argue aren't dual threat

[Delhommey]

Can you argue against Aaron Rodgers or Mike Vick?

[lightsout]

I was at practice tonight. I can count on less than one hand the "terrible" decisions Cam made (really, only one I can recall, that being the interception, which was just a bad throw and bad idea to begin with).

I can also count on my hands alone the "bad" or "poor decisions." Those resulted in overthrown balls, under-thrown balls, and bat-downs that COULD have been interceptions had the DB made a spectacular play.

Cam, while not amazing in his first full-pads practice, was good. I was thoroughly pleased with his performance in his first "real" NFL practice.

Jimmy, on the other hand....:nonod: 2 times he would have been sacked and fumbled had it been a real game. A few picks. A bunch of bad throws. Throws that would have gotten receivers KILLED in a game situation. Just bad. He had 2 great throws. One a deep ball to Gettis that Gettis let go through his hands, and another to I think LaFell or Pilares on a slant or post (can't recall which). The rest was a bunch of what we saw last season. Check down after check down.

[rico6]

C'mon Jimmy get it together.

[chef17]

Can you argue against Aaron Rodgers or Mike Vick?

If you want to nitpick yes. Shut down Vick's running and his passing goes way down. Can argue that isn't a true "dual threat" since without his running he sucks

[Davidson Deac II]

Think about it this way. If he starts completing 60-65% of his passes, with his athletic ability and scrambling ability you will have one of the most dominant QBs in the NFL.

If he only completes 55-60% he will only be really really good.

That poo is the exciting part.

I agree, but the key word is if. And I will add another if. If he doesn't throw a lot of int's, he will be good.

Of course, if is a word associated with any NFL rookie QB, even Andrew Luck.

[Highlandfire]

just fugin wonderful

There ya go! I agree completely. He has to be Steve Young, learn to look to pass first, second, third and fourth, then as he takes off still look down field. If it isn't there haul ass and truck someone's ass into the stone age!

Hey I am all for a cat that can get after it with his wheels when the time comes, but for him to be a great QB, and that is my goal as well, then he has to rely on the brain and arm 90% of the time.

[Highlandfire]

Oh dear. Throwing in some statistics are we? OK. Let's look at the starters in the NFL that are considered "duel threat" QB's and see how they're doing. Keep in mind, due to age, smarts or both, several of these use their legs mainly to escape trouble/buy time in the pocket:

Top 10 Level:

Michael Vick: Kinda had a good year. The most pure runner taking snaps in the NFL, he's also (for the same reason) one of the most oft injured. Injury being probably the biggest reason you don't want your QB running past the line of scrimmage. That being said, Cam is both bigger and slower than Vick.

Ben Roethlisberger: His feet are mainly for buying time, and is the big goal line runner with an arm everyone hopes Cam can turn into.

Aaron Rodgers: Forgot about the Super Bowl MVP did we? His 356 yards on the ground last year show he's not afraid to pull up, run and not slide.

Mid Tier:

Tony Romo: Again, another "buy time" guy. Certainly slipping as of late.

Josh Freeman: You'll probably accept Freeman over Rodgers as a "running QB." You'll probably not realize that he only rushed for 8 more yards than Rodgers last year. There's a reason for that. Freeman could become big time this year.

Donovan McNabb: Who I think Cam projects towards, good and bad. He certainly keeps to that pocket more now with age. On the decline for sure.

OK. You'll do:

Ryan Fitzpatrick: But...he went to Harvard! He can't be a "mobile QB!"

Colt McCoy: Brittle as dinosaur bones regardless of whether he stays in the pocket, rolls out or darts forward.

The Golden Calf of Bristol: May or may not win the starting job but it's his to lose right now. One of the most pure "runners" on the list.

So, in the end, with the assumption that Cam and Jesus, Jr. take the reigns this year, that's 31.25% of the league that's considered "mobile QB's" who will start. Of those, arguably 3, undeniably 2 are elite status right now. That's not even looking back at previous years.

So, to rehash, 99% you say?

Now a reality check, YES 99% Vick is the only DUAL THREAT QB coming out of college on that list. The others are 'mobile' QB's. Mobile QB's look to throw 95% of the time and run if they need to. They just have the wheels to be dangerous if they do run.

Dual threats look to run at least 40% of the time and is a major weapon (sometimes THE Weapon) they have in their arsenal. Dual threats = Cam, teebow, Vick, Tuiososopo (sp), Eric Crouch (Nebraska), Tommie Frasier (Nebraska) Denard Robinson, Brad Smith, Antwaan Randle-El. Jamelle Hollieway, Terrelle Pryor, Pat White, etc.

There is a HUGE difference between the two and it is an obvious one if you aren't looking to make an excuse for Newton. So yeah 99% or so and yeah until Cam breaks the mold then there will be some question marks about him. But for the record I hope he does, and it seems like he wants to.

[bleys]

if that is the case, Cam Newton is a Mobile QB more than he is a Dual Threat..

Now a reality check, YES 99% Vick is the only DUAL THREAT QB coming out of college on that list. The others are 'mobile' QB's. Mobile QB's look to throw 95% of the time and run if they need to. They just have the wheels to be dangerous if they do run.

Dual threats look to run at least 40% of the time and is a major weapon (sometimes THE Weapon) they have in their arsenal. Dual threats = Cam, teebow, Vick, Tuiososopo (sp), Eric Crouch (Nebraska), Tommie Frasier (Nebraska) Denard Robinson, Brad Smith, Antwaan Randle-El. Jamelle Hollieway, Terrelle Pryor, Pat White, etc.

There is a HUGE difference between the two and it is an obvious one if you aren't looking to make an excuse for Newton. So yeah 99% or so and yeah until Cam breaks the mold then there will be some question marks about him. But for the record I hope he does, and it seems like he wants to.

[Delhommey]

Looking at your list of 13 Duel Threat QB's, one projects as a starter and one's a Pro Bowler. That's not counting some of the others that had success at other positions.

Hardly seems like a 99% fail rate.

[paulSM]

Is it just me? cause I was excited about the Derek Anderson thing :)

[MadHatter]

Oh dear. Throwing in some statistics are we? OK. Let's look at the starters in the NFL that are considered "duel threat" QB's and see how they're doing. Keep in mind, due to age, smarts or both, several of these use their legs mainly to escape trouble/buy time in the pocket:

Top 10 Level:

Michael Vick: Kinda had a good year. The most pure runner taking snaps in the NFL, he's also (for the same reason) one of the most oft injured. Injury being probably the biggest reason you don't want your QB running past the line of scrimmage. That being said, Cam is both bigger and slower than Vick.

Ben Roethlisberger: His feet are mainly for buying time, and is the big goal line runner with an arm everyone hopes Cam can turn into.

Aaron Rodgers: Forgot about the Super Bowl MVP did we? His 356 yards on the ground last year show he's not afraid to pull up, run and not slide.

Mid Tier:

Tony Romo: Again, another "buy time" guy. Certainly slipping as of late.

Josh Freeman: You'll probably accept Freeman over Rodgers as a "running QB." You'll probably not realize that he only rushed for 8 more yards than Rodgers last year. There's a reason for that. Freeman could become big time this year.

Donovan McNabb: Who I think Cam projects towards, good and bad. He certainly keeps to that pocket more now with age. On the decline for sure.

OK. You'll do:

Ryan Fitzpatrick: But...he went to Harvard! He can't be a "mobile QB!"

Colt McCoy: Brittle as dinosaur bones regardless of whether he stays in the pocket, rolls out or darts forward.

The Golden Calf of Bristol: May or may not win the starting job but it's his to lose right now. One of the most pure "runners" on the list.

So, in the end, with the assumption that Cam and Jesus, Jr. take the reigns this year, that's 31.25% of the league that's considered "mobile QB's" who will start. Of those, arguably 3, undeniably 2 are elite status right now. That's not even looking back at previous years.

So, to rehash, 99% you say?

Other than Vick, all you did was name a few mobile QB's. There is a big difference in a dual threat QB expected to make many plays with his feet and being mobile.

[Highlandfire]

if that is the case, Cam Newton is a Mobile QB more than he is a Dual Threat..

Really? how many rushing yards last year? How many rushes per offensive attempt he was directly involved in (QB passing or deciding to run)? No sir he is a dual threat and you damn well know it.

Look just stop. He is a dual threat, everyone with a brain knows it, and everyone that isn't a Cam homer knows he has serious question marks for many reasons. Now detractors like me before the draft are willing to cut the guy slack and hope he becomes great. I am behind the kid now, but sitting here trying to say he wasn't what he was or the knocks or question marks aren't legit are pure bull poo.

[Highlandfire]

Looking at your list of 13 Duel Threat QB's, one projects as a starter and one's a Pro Bowler. That's not counting some of the others that had success at other positions.

Hardly seems like a 99% fail rate.

There is ONE legit starter on that list. Vick that you mention had to go to prison, then sit for a full year to learn to do what I am hoping Chud is making Cam do now, become a QUARTERBACK, not a running back that throws.

All the rest did nothing including Teebow. And if you think that is the entire list, you are way mistaken. That is just a few off the top of my head.

Again lets just stop the denial BS. I am all behind Cam, I want him to succeed, from what I am hearing from him I am optimistic, but REALITY is the odds are stacked and he will have to buck a long standing trend. But I will say this, if he tries to be the pure dual threat he was in College, he will fail.

Oh and technically you are right, its only a 92.3% fail rate with the 13 I listed so far. So far being jury out on Cam and Teebow.